The Classic/Retro Pop Culture Thread

[RJDiogenes]

I picture Paul slouching down in his seat.

Hence my surprise that you're good with its origin point here.

Who knew what was to come, and "Jive Talkin'" was a fun song. The problem isn't with Disco as a genre, it's that it just overwhelmed the radio and so much of it was so bad.

Ah...that was probably around '78 off the top of my head. By mid-'79, they were already warming up for the Dark Phoenix saga. That was when I picked up my first random issues of the book, though I didn't get into it until the immediate aftermath of Jean's death. I picked up the funeral issue and subsequently found a copy of the death issue still on a stand.

Okay, looking over the Fandom Wiki, it looks like the book began it's decline with #110, with the following Magneto storyline being kind of mediocre. That was followed by the Savage Land and Moses Magnum stories, which were just awful. Starting with #120, the quality began drifting upward, though it fluctuated a lot, the Arcade storyline being particularly bad, but the Proteus storyline was pretty good, as was the Hellfire Club. Then we got into the Dark Phoenix Saga, which was definitely a big improvement, despite the weird editorial stuff that resulted in last-minute changes. Then, starting with Kitty Pryde joining the team, they were off on another Golden Age for a while.

They scoff at judges and lawyers.

They haven't met Shannon.

Christopher Lee lying with his hands on his torso? I would've thought that was a gimme.

See? Kicking myself. Ouch. I guess I didn't recognize him from that angle.

I will note that I described it as the most mediocre, not the worst; and by "to date," I meant in 50th Anniversaryland. The worst to date in 50A would have to be DAF.

Nah, I'm not arguing. Some things you like just because you were at a certain age.

I read that he neglected to lobby for it in a timely manner.

Ah.

Hot damn--Poitier as any Bond villain would've been pure awesome!

Seriously. There's another guy who's a Pulp character come to life.

There are much better ones than this. "Nobody Does It Better" and "Live and Let Die" are the top of my list.

"Live and Let Die" is definitely at the top of my list, but I don't care for "Nobody Does It Better."

It's a bit extreme...Bond's been persuasive in other situations without threatening to snipe a guy in the groin at close range.

Well, the thing is, would he have really done it? He knew the guy would crack easily.

That was setup for the fake third nipple.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. I guess I just assumed that Bond did that himself.

I neglected to quote the final punchline, when Bond's returning to Hip after having seen Fat. While removing the nipple and tossing it in the bushes: "I think he found me quite titillating."

They had a knack for that in those days. Plenty O'Toole comes to mind.

Yeah, they probably don't do that anymore. Politically incorrect, I'm sure.

I held back on going off on a rant about it, but I imagine that his early Bond films being written by these guys informed Moore's inability to take the character seriously. I've seen Moore in dramatic roles, he could've been a great straight-faced Bond. I'm probably repeating myself from the DAF review a few years back.

I enjoyed the somewhat lighthearted, High Adventure spirit of that era-- and they didn't let us forget that Bond was deadly serious beneath his charm, as with those two scenes noted above.

Resisting the urge to post a screencap, while wondering if it would be a rules violation...

I think it should be a violation of the laws of physics.

There's even a shallow drinking in that clip!

Yes, I saw. Somewhat awkwardly set up, but that's okay.

Except Bond was in the martial arts togs that the school put him in, so he probably didn't have anything on him.

That's what I was thinking. But, of course, the writers are in control, so it could have been done.

Vacationing.

Well, I got that much. But he doesn't seem the type to leave the country, let alone journey to Thailand-- to say nothing of the preposterousness of him being there at the same time and place as Bond.

I'm not quite that far along yet.

Enjoy your youth while it lasts.

That's a given.

Clearly Marvin Hamlisch took note when scoring the most impressive Bond stunt ever:

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That's how you do it! There must've been standing ovations in the theater.

That is definitely very impressive.

Don't get me going--nowadays kids wouldn't even appreciate that somebody really did that. Defying gravity comes too cheaply with CGI. I read that the show Top Gear tried to replicate the stunt, and failed...though the stunt company involved in devising the stunt toured with it in the '70s.

True. I love what CGI and AI is able to accomplish, but they are, like most things, a double-edged sword.

I thought you'd appreciate the freebie! That was the first thing that came up on a general search of the tail number.

Looks like the airplane database is back among the living, though.

It's a very impressive-looking locale.

I love it, and I wouldn't mind seeing it in person myself.

The film even gave us a good implied rationalization for why the dummy had a loaded gun...in the teaser they showed Nick Nack taunting Scaramanga about finding a weapon. In fact, it just occurred to me that maybe it was meant to be another firing dummy, though we didn't see it being used in that fashion.

They must have hired Chekhov as a consultant.

I read, I think from an account by Moore, that afterward some of her body hair was singed.

Still better than the Sumo.

Captain Oveured.

I've long thought the same thing, having watched FI well before seeing TMWTGG.

Google searches deny everything, but I'm having a hard time buying it.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Okay, looking over the Fandom Wiki, it looks like the book began it's decline with #110, with the following Magneto storyline being kind of mediocre. That was followed by the Savage Land and Moses Magnum stories, which were just awful.

I found that part of the run to be relatively weak myself.

Starting with #120, the quality began drifting upward, though it fluctuated a lot, the Arcade storyline being particularly bad, but the Proteus storyline was pretty good, as was the Hellfire Club. Then we got into the Dark Phoenix Saga, which was definitely a big improvement, despite the weird editorial stuff that resulted in last-minute changes.

The Hellfire Club storyline is officially considered part of the Dark Phoenix Saga. The Proteus arc really kicks it off, though, starting with Jean's return in #125.

"Live and Let Die" is definitely at the top of my list, but I don't care for "Nobody Does It Better."

Well, they were both #2's; while "The Man with the Golden Gun" apparently didn't chart anywhere.

Well, the thing is, would he have really done it? He knew the guy would crack easily.

I'd like to think he wouldn't have, but it's hard to tell what they were going for.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. I guess I just assumed that Bond did that himself.

Not his field. As a cosmetic alteration, it brings to mind the false fingerprints in DAF.

Yeah, they probably don't do that anymore. Politically incorrect, I'm sure.

How times have changed. Dalton's Bond was generally perceived as being too PC; and following that, Brosnan's was heavily sold up as being PI.

I enjoyed the somewhat lighthearted, High Adventure spirit of that era-- and they didn't let us forget that Bond was deadly serious beneath his charm, as with those two scenes noted above.

I enjoy Moore's Bond for what he was, but as someone who delved into the books while he was still in the role, I was frustrated by what he could have been.

Well, I got that much. But he doesn't seem the type to leave the country, let alone journey to Thailand-- to say nothing of the preposterousness of him being there at the same time and place as Bond.

Just gotta roll with that sort of stuff.

That is definitely very impressive.

Done only once and there's an accident right there on film...the ski impacting the parachute wasn't intended. The bit of movie fakery going on there is that the ski chase and the jump were filmed at completely different locations. The jump was actually done from a flat-topped mountain.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The Hellfire Club storyline is officially considered part of the Dark Phoenix Saga. The Proteus arc really kicks it off, though, starting with Jean's return in #125.

There were less clear demarcations between storylines in those days, I think. Books were more like soap operas. Nowadays they seem to write for the TPB. Which is fine, really.

Well, they were both #2's; while "The Man with the Golden Gun" apparently didn't chart anywhere.

I don't think "Nobody Does It Better" was terrible or anything, I just don't like it. My opinion is probably colored by my dislike of the movie.

I'd like to think he wouldn't have, but it's hard to tell what they were going for.

The gunsmith couldn't tell either.

Not his field. As a cosmetic alteration, it brings to mind the false fingerprints in DAF.

Hasn't he shown expertise in disguise before? Maybe not, because I can't think of any examples. But you can buy fake nipples in a joke shop. So I hear.

How times have changed. Dalton's Bond was generally perceived as being too PC; and following that, Brosnan's was heavily sold up as being PI.

I don't remember any of those movies clearly enough to have an opinion, but I do remember the female M calling Bond a "misogynist," which made me laugh out loud.

I enjoy Moore's Bond for what he was, but as someone who delved into the books while he was still in the role, I was frustrated by what he could have been.

I have the books, but to date I have only read the first one. The book Bond and the movie Bond are really two very distinct characters who share the same name. I suspect if I had read the books (and liked them) before seeing the movies, I would not like any of the movies.

Just gotta roll with that sort of stuff.

I guess I gotta.

Done only once and there's an accident right there on film...the ski impacting the parachute wasn't intended. The bit of movie fakery going on there is that the ski chase and the jump were filmed at completely different locations. The jump was actually done from a flat-topped mountain.

What kills me is that movies now cost a zillion times what they did back then.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I don't think "Nobody Does It Better" was terrible or anything, I just don't like it. My opinion is probably colored by my dislike of the movie.

We'll be switching shoes in '77. Overall, I consider TSWLM to be the best Bond film.

Hasn't he shown expertise in disguise before? Maybe not, because I can't think of any examples.

Something he noteworthily is pretty much never seen doing. I think in the books he was known to engage in subtle disguise techniques like oral prosthetics to change the shape of his face.

But you can buy fake nipples in a joke shop. So I hear.

Qnion rules.

I don't remember any of those movies clearly enough to have an opinion, but I do remember the female M calling Bond a "misogynist," which made me laugh out loud.

That was my first exposure to the word, and I was well into my 20s then.

I have the books, but to date I have only read the first one. The book Bond and the movie Bond are really two very distinct characters who share the same name. I suspect if I had read the books (and liked them) before seeing the movies, I would not like any of the movies.

I was delving into the two Bond worlds simultaneously, so the books were informing my view of the movies. Part of my coming to peace with the Moore era is that subsequent actors did more to channel the Fleming character. (That's what Dalton was really about, though Joe Sixpack wouldn't have known that.) Moore is very enjoyable for what he does, and he kept the franchise alive and healthy solidly into a new era, where it might otherwise have died in the wrong hands.

I guess I gotta.

I'm reminded of something I learned from DVD extras. Starting with TSWLM, I think, when the car drives up on the beach, there was a tradition of always having a public reaction scene to something Bond was doing, and this scene always included the same extra doing a double-take. E.g., the hover gondola scene in Moonraker, I think he was at a sidewalk cafe. I think he was related to the Broccolis.

A good example of the past not being that long ago just came up...it's being reported that Harrison Rufus Tyler--the grandson of 10th president John Tyler--died this week at 96. No "greats," just the son of a son. Apparently President Tyler had several children late in life by younger wives. Harrison was born over 60 years after John died in 1862.

 

[RJDiogenes]

We'll be switching shoes in '77. Overall, I consider TSWLM to be the best Bond film.

I'll be interested in what you have to say. I don't really remember details at this point, except that I didn't think Barbara Bach had the gravitas for a role like that, unlike Diana Rigg.

Something he noteworthily is pretty much never seen doing.

Okay, so much for that theory.

I think in the books he was known to engage in subtle disguise techniques like oral prosthetics to change the shape of his face.

Maybe I read about that. And I'm just now remembering when he made himself up as a clown, but that was in Octopussy, I think. When I saw MWTGG, I probably just breezed by it as something so simple it didn't need explanation. Certainly not something he would need Q for, unless it had a laser beam in it or something.

Qnion rules.

Qte.

That was my first exposure to the word, and I was well into my 20s then.

Back in the before times it would only come up if you were talking about Jack the Ripper or some such.

I was delving into the two Bond worlds simultaneously, so the books were informing my view of the movies. Part of my coming to peace with the Moore era is that subsequent actors did more to channel the Fleming character. (That's what Dalton was really about, though Joe Sixpack wouldn't have known that.) Moore is very enjoyable for what he does, and he kept the franchise alive and healthy solidly into a new era, where it might otherwise have died in the wrong hands.

Would the book Bond have followed through on his threat to the gunsmith?

I'm reminded of something I learned from DVD extras. Starting with TSWLM, I think, when the car drives up on the beach, there was a tradition of always having a public reaction scene to something Bond was doing, and this scene always included the same extra doing a double-take. E.g., the hover gondola scene in Moonraker, I think he was at a sidewalk cafe. I think he was related to the Broccolis.

Very interesting. Is this still going on? The guy would have to be pretty old by now. Unless he's a time traveler assigned to document certain specific incidents in the life of 007.

A good example of the past not being that long ago just came up...it's being reported that Harrison Rufus Tyler--the grandson of 10th president John Tyler--died this week at 96. No "greats," just the son of a son. Apparently President Tyler had several children late in life by younger wives. Harrison was born over 60 years after John died in 1862.

Remarkable. It's too bad that was not reported more widely.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'll be interested in what you have to say. I don't really remember details at this point, except that I didn't think Barbara Bach had the gravitas for a role like that, unlike Diana Rigg.

Well, I'm distinguishing between "favorite" and "best" in this case. I just think that overall, as the classic Bond series goes, it's the best exemplar of a Bond film--the one that comes closest to having the "whole package," and the one that you'd show to someone to represent the series.

And I'm just now remembering when he made himself up as a clown, but that was in Octopussy, I think.

Yep, there was that.

Qte.

In the John Gardner revival of the novel series in the '80s (which was my portal to the original Fleming novels), Major Boothroyd had a female assistant whom Bond was shagging nicknamed Q'ute.

Back in the before times it would only come up if you were talking about Jack the Ripper or some such.

There ya go. It wasn't just me thinking that the term as it's become commonly used is an overreach.

Would the book Bond have followed through on his threat to the gunsmith?

Good question. Offhand I'm thinking no, as the whole scenario just seems so "off" to me. One distinguishing feature of novel Bond, which Dalton at least channeled, is that he didn't enjoy his job. He considered killing to be a nasty business, and it affected him. He drank and sometimes popped pills to deal with it. In that scene in TMWTGG, it was probably the result of forcing Moore to do something he didn't want to do, but Bond just seems a little too gleeful about threatening to blow the guy's groin off. TSWLM and FYEO have better examples of Moore in "tough Bond" mode that don't feel so off. Both involve killing killers. Now that I mention it, in TMWTGG, Bond tells Scaramanga that the people he kills are usually killers.

Very interesting. Is this still going on? The guy would have to be pretty old by now. Unless he's a time traveler assigned to document certain specific incidents in the life of 007.

I doubt it's still going on, and couldn't say exactly when it stopped, but I think it may have been going through the Brosnan era. I was unable to find a mention of it in the IMDb trivia notes for TSWLM.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well, I'm distinguishing between "favorite" and "best" in this case.

I can dig it. I always try to do that.

In the John Gardner revival of the novel series in the '80s (which was my portal to the original Fleming novels), Major Boothroyd had a female assistant whom Bond was shagging nicknamed Q'ute.

Oh, yeah, I read at least one of those, probably the first one. License Renewed, I think? I recall it being pretty short-- and very different from the Ian Fleming novel I read decades later.

There ya go. It wasn't just me thinking that the term as it's become commonly used is an overreach.

It's ludicrous. I cringe with vicarious embarrassment whenever anybody uses it. But that's pretty typical of contemporary monetized social media politics.

In that scene in TMWTGG, it was probably the result of forcing Moore to do something he didn't want to do, but Bond just seems a little too gleeful about threatening to blow the guy's groin off.

Hmm. I suppose that could be interpreted as him playing it up because he knew the guy was going to buy it.

Now that I mention it, in TMWTGG, Bond tells Scaramanga that the people he kills are usually killers.

Yes, that was in one of the clips. I seem to recall that Connery had some similar lines about doing things for "King and Country" that he didn't really enjoy doing.

 

[The Old Mixer]

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R.I.P. Hot Lips--Loretta Swit, 87.

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Post-50th Anniversary Viewing

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All in the Family
"Prisoner in the House"
Originally aired January 4, 1975

Archie is not happy that the plumber's assistant is a Sing-Sing prisoner in a work-furlough program.

While Mr. Strinski's (Sidney Clute) working on the Bunkers' kitchen pipes, Edith strikes up a friendship with his assistant, Nick Howard (Cliff Osmond), and learns that he's so well-read on poetry because he's a prisoner at Sing Sing who was sent up for attempted armed robbery with a toy gun, and is now in a work-release program by day. Despite Edith not wanting Archie to find out, the first thing she does when Mike and Gloria get home is tell them. When Archie arrives, in a bad mood from having lost a filling at work, he finds Meathead raiding the fridge.

Archie: Why don't you just hop in there, shut the door, and save wear and tear on the light bulb?​

When Archie wants to know why the plumbers have to rush out while leaving the job unfinished overnight (which means having to get by with bathroom water in the kitchen), he learns of the situation and wants to call the plumber's shop to prevent Howard from returning; but Edith, afraid that will mean Nick won't be let out anymore, has one of those moments while trying to stop him.

Edith: Put the phone down, dammit!​

Over breakfast, Mike tries to argue in favor of the rehabilitation program, only to have to listen to Archie's not-so-brilliant ideas for better bank security. Archie's leaving for work when Nick shows up ahead of Strinski, and doesn't want to leave the women alone with him (Gloria now being in bed with a cold), so he uses his tooth as an excuse to stay home. When Edith goes next door for aspirin, Archie finds himself alone with Nick. While Archie tries to dance around the issue, eventually he upsets Nick when he doesn't want him going upstairs to work while Gloria's in bed. Strinski then arrives, also upset at Archie because he'd gotten other customers worked at Kelcy's. When Strinski also breaks the news that he plans to stop using Nick because he's bad for business, Nick's ready to give up the furlough, but Edith talks him out of it by quoting from their mutual favorite poet, Edgar A. Guest. Nick decides that people like Edith make it worth giving the outside a chance; and Strinski goes to try to calm down his next customer, Barney Hefner.

---

Happy Days
"Open House"
Originally aired January 7, 1975

Over the protests of Richie, whose parents are out of town, Potsie invites three stranded college girls to spend the night.

It's shirt-sleeve weather in Milwaukee again, and the guys ask Fonzie--who's borrowing Bag Zombroski's window at Arnold's drive-up--to come over for a poker game they're hosting at Richie's while the folks are visiting friends out of town overnight, and Joanie's spending the night with a friend. Howard expects Richie to take advantage of the situation, asking him what he has planned. When Richie and Potsie have the place to themselves, they try unsuccessfully to get some sleep so they'll have an advantage, then go outside to tire themselves out playing basketball. They're approached by an attractive young woman billed as Ruth (Joan Prather, whom I read will marry into the Sufficient Octet), who tells them that she and her girlfriends' car broke down nearby. Fonzie, making a Cunningham garage call, informs the girls that they need a distributor that he can't get until morning. When Ruth mentions being short of remaining funds for a hotel, Potsie seizes upon the opportunity to invite them to stay at the Cunninghams'. Richie's initially wary of this idea, but changes his mind when one of the girls, Rose (Colleen Camp; though the only time any of the girls' names is mentioned is when Ruth refers to her as Chrissy), comes downstairs in a nightie after taking a shower.

The third girl, witty Penny (Cindy Cassell), having gone out with Fonzie, the guys find themselves paired up with Ruth and Rose, who motivate them to raid the Cunningham liquor cabinet. Ralph comes over to find out why the game was canceled and learns about the girls before he's kicked out. After Penny returns, the girls go up to hit the sack, but the guys get charged up when Ruth casually mentions that she sleeps in the raw. In Richie's room, the guys lament how the slightly older girls must think of them as kids; then try to come up with ways to get their attention, hoping to open an opportunity. After all of their attempts fail, they settle for hitting the hay themselves, and letting Ralph and Fonzie believe that more happened.

But Howard and Marion return unexpectedly early the next morning after a bad night. Howard goes upstairs to find someone in the bed, assuming that Marion beat him there. When he goes to the bathroom, he finds Ruth in the shower, and the girl in his bed turns out to have been Rose. Cut to the Cunninghams amicably seeing the girls off in their fixed car, the situation having been explained.

In the Arnold's coda, Richie has a chat about girls with Fonzie, and Ralph spills the pockets full of nickels he had prepared for the previous night.

EFW: Fonzie's back to wearing his gray fabric jacket in this one.

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All in the Family
"The Jeffersons Move Up"
Originally aired January 11, 1975

Louise Jefferson has second thoughts about moving [on up (movin' on up)] to the East Side [to the East Side] of Manhattan. Pilot for The Jeffersons.

NOTE: Carroll O'Connor, Rob Reiner, and Sally Struthers do not appear in this episode.

Well we're spinnin' on off (spinnin' on off)​

To our own show (spinnin' on off)​

George is now opening his third store, with more to come, so he's secured a deluxe apartment in the sky-hi-hi.

Louise: George, we are just plain folks.​

George: No, not anymore. See, we was plain folks $47,000.50 ago.​

Edith comes over to give Louise some fruit for her "trip"...movin' on up being hungry business. Very Special Moment Alert!

Edith: Louise...did I ever tell you...I love you?​

Louise: Every minute we've spent together.​

​

Edith leaves with both in tears.

George says that they'll be traveling to their new place by limo, though we don't see the opening credits scene (in which they travel by cab). Mr. and Mrs. J arrive as Lionel and his fiancée are scoping out the spacious new set. (The part of Jenny Willis is now being played by Berlinda Tolbert.) George takes delight in running around the place to flush its four toilets. Just as he's telling Louise that they won't have neighbors bothering them, they get their first visit from the Englishman next door, Harry Bentley (Paul Benedict), who asks George to walk on his back. Only as Bentley's leaving does he notice the obvious.

Bentley: Good God, you're black!​

The Jeffersons' next visit is from their prospective in-laws, Tom and Helen Willis (now Franklin Cover and Roxie Roker), whom they learn just happen to live right upstairs. The studio audience is distractingly subdued during the ensuing sparring between George and mainly Helen. Laughter and applause pick up after they leave. George feels betrayed, thinking that Louise knew, though Lionel explains that only he did. Next to arrive is George's mother (Zara Cully, the only actor to keep one of the series roles established in "Lionel's Engagement").

George is ready to pack up and move back out (movin' back out) when he learns on a follow-up visit from Bentley that Mr. Whittendale, a banker he wants to schmooze with to enable his business expansion, just happens to live up in the penthouse. The Willises return to learn that George isn't leaving after all...and the laughter is noticeably muted again.

I suspect some sort of production issue with their scenes specifically. I read a trivia item about a previous episode that they always taped the show twice and put together the best takes from either taping. For the Willises' scenes, it sounded like they didn't actually have a full audience, possibly only one person. IMDb doesn't shed any light on the situation, apart from other viewers having noticed the awkwardness, too, which includes long pauses where'd you'd expect the audience reactions to be.

Ned Wertimer appears uncredited as Ralph the doorman; and it seems that hiring Florence will be the subject of the series premiere.

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Oh, yeah, I read at least one of those, probably the first one. License Renewed, I think?

Yep.

I recall it being pretty short-- and very different from the Ian Fleming novel I read decades later.

He did set his stories specifically in the Fleming novel continuity, though...playing it vague about the passage of time since that series.

Yes, that was in one of the clips. I seem to recall that Connery had some similar lines about doing things for "King and Country" that he didn't really enjoy doing.

Odd that he misgendered QE.