Who wouldn't want to be able to stand on the bridge of their starship and turn the room around them transparent to watch stars fly by?
the ceiling of Kirk`s Bridge - transparent?
- Thread starter xvicente
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The very fact that there are windows suggests this isn't the case. If it was that easy to casually transparent-ize the walls, then why bother having windows at all?
--Alex
Has anyone tried a version with indirect lighting coming from behind the uppermost curvy part of the set as built, and reflecting of a slightly concave ceiling? This would not only look futuristic but would also cut down on the intensity, and therefore the glare, that a single large central lightsource would otherwise produce.
This might in fact explain why those windows are at the oddest locations in the outside view - a big concentration in the neck, which is the least habitable part, and noticeable dearth in the saucer rim areas, despite much of the crew supposedly being housed there.
Quite possibly, the windows cover much of the ship, but generally are shuttered by adjusting opaqueness, so that they appear seamlessly blank from the outside. Additional mechanical shutters may exist on the inside (say, for the portholes of "Mark of Gideon" even if those don't match outside porthole shapes particularly well), but the basic mechanism is one of turning parts of the hull transparent and back with a keypress.
Timo Saloniemi
There are reasons why transparent materials might have to be more brittle than opaque ones: light doesn't easily pass through materials that have the sort of bonds that provide tensile strength. But this is by no means a universal given, and windows might easily be the strongest part of a starship, or then simply structurally identical to the opaque hull sections.
Aluminum as such is just an element you can insert in transparent and opaque materials; pure aluminum metal doesn't get transparent to visible light no matter what you do with it, but "transparent aluminum" does not have any "mandatory" physical properties we could infer from the name alone. For all we know, it doesn't even contain any aluminum at all, but is dubbed that because it is physically somewhat similar to aluminum metal, or for some other frivolous reason.
Timo Saloniemi
Aluminum as such is just an element you can insert in transparent and opaque materials; pure aluminum metal doesn't get transparent to visible light no matter what you do with it, but "transparent aluminum" does not have any "mandatory" physical properties we could infer from the name alone. For all we know, it doesn't even contain any aluminum at all, but is dubbed that because it is physically somewhat similar to aluminum metal, or for some other frivolous reason.
Timo Saloniemi
It seems to shoot vertically upwards, but there's not really enough reference points to say categorically in-universe that it's actually the case. I could easily interpret that to be a curved ceiling with an odd pattern (on the segments). The shot is static, after all. Ditto for WNMHGB, but the view of the ceiling is much briefer
I tried this interesting idea and the results I got were the vertical ceiling walls (above the the curved part) becomes very bright (or hot) because of all the initial light bounces. A half dome in the center (like in TMP) seems to have a more even distribution of light. I'll post up a sample when I get off work. Donny's super-wide and relatively flat dome could also work because the light is coming from such a large surface.
YARN
Fleet Captain
I wouldn't get hung up on the "canon rule" that "If it is on-screen, it's real!" in all cases.
There are shots with equipment shadows, jiggly walls, the mat used to break a fall, etc.
In the case of the Enterprise bridge, there are a precious few instances where the camera tilts up, but this was not a highly finished part of the set which was intended to pass visual scrutiny. If your eyes are where they are supposed to be (i.e., watching the characters), you should only be catching the ceiling in your peripheral vision.
Consequently, the nature of the dome is open to question.
We've seen at least one transparent dome (Generations). It might be a sensor dome. It might be translucent. It might be transparent. It might be some combination (i.e., flip a switch and it polarizes to keep out light).
There is room for interpretation here.
There are shots with equipment shadows, jiggly walls, the mat used to break a fall, etc.
In the case of the Enterprise bridge, there are a precious few instances where the camera tilts up, but this was not a highly finished part of the set which was intended to pass visual scrutiny. If your eyes are where they are supposed to be (i.e., watching the characters), you should only be catching the ceiling in your peripheral vision.
Consequently, the nature of the dome is open to question.
We've seen at least one transparent dome (Generations). It might be a sensor dome. It might be translucent. It might be transparent. It might be some combination (i.e., flip a switch and it polarizes to keep out light).
There is room for interpretation here.
We actually don't see that far. Anyway, the opening shot of The Cage seem to indicate that is is transparent.
We've also seen one solid interior ceiling (TMP/TWOK) which is closer in generation to TOS
Yes, because we're never shown the entire ceiling from TOS.
YARN
Fleet Captain
We've also seen one solid interior ceiling (TMP/TWOK) which is closer in generation to TOS
Good point.
Quick and dirty Sample lighting:
Good study. I'm glad we're having this discussion on the bridge dome. It's something I've always wondered about and have been too afraid to ask. I've seen many "versions" of what the bridge ceiling would look like. Some have gone the transparent route to fit in line with The Cage/The Menagerie, others have taken a more TMP route. I, personally, have always gone with the flatter, wider, lit dome that seems fitting for how much light is spilled around the bridge. I think it's these interpretations that give a needed variation to each of the digital Bridge recreations I've seen in my lifetime. One of those Star Trek mysteries that seems best if it remains a question in our minds and therefore a topic for discussion.
blssdwlf,
^^ If the above "quick and dirty sample" is meant in answer to my previous query then I think you misunderstood what I was getting at?
I was suggesting ignoring the uppermost vertical flats altogether by interpreting them as a slightly concave ceiling that arches behind the curving parts just above the lighting alcove that runs around the bridge (and anchoring to it somewhere behind there).
This way, the indirect lighting comes from the gap between the curved ceiling and the curvy parts below, and reflects off the curved ceiling. This shouldn’t create any “hotspots” should it? Because that’s kinda the point of indirect lighting, it would diffuse evenly over the light grey curved ceiling?
Anywho, I know this isn’t exactly what we see in the screencaps above, but I just thought it might look kinda Kewel, and might even work?
^^ If the above "quick and dirty sample" is meant in answer to my previous query then I think you misunderstood what I was getting at?
I was suggesting ignoring the uppermost vertical flats altogether by interpreting them as a slightly concave ceiling that arches behind the curving parts just above the lighting alcove that runs around the bridge (and anchoring to it somewhere behind there).
This way, the indirect lighting comes from the gap between the curved ceiling and the curvy parts below, and reflects off the curved ceiling. This shouldn’t create any “hotspots” should it? Because that’s kinda the point of indirect lighting, it would diffuse evenly over the light grey curved ceiling?
Anywho, I know this isn’t exactly what we see in the screencaps above, but I just thought it might look kinda Kewel, and might even work?
Just a quick thought for whatever it's worth. In trying to determine the function of the lighted Bridge dome (exterior view), I believe we'd also have to determine the function of the lighted dome at the bottom of the saucer's underside.
I can't shake this feeling that both have foremost a position light function, where the outer rim position lights are merely the outer borders of an (otherwise unknown) center in "dark" space.
To go with the assumption it's the same exotic lighting effect we have with the other exterior hull windows would force us to conclude that the Phaser Control Room's floor had to be transparent, wouldn't it?
Bob
I can't shake this feeling that both have foremost a position light function, where the outer rim position lights are merely the outer borders of an (otherwise unknown) center in "dark" space.
To go with the assumption it's the same exotic lighting effect we have with the other exterior hull windows would force us to conclude that the Phaser Control Room's floor had to be transparent, wouldn't it?
Bob
Not necessarily.
The domes at the top and bottom of the TOS saucer are lit as well as the dome above the shuttlebay. Then again, so is the large sensor/deflector in TMP. Those lit, translucent structures could be sensors or emitters. The "light function" would be a side product.
The domes at the top and bottom of the TOS saucer are lit as well as the dome above the shuttlebay. Then again, so is the large sensor/deflector in TMP. Those lit, translucent structures could be sensors or emitters. The "light function" would be a side product.
@TIN_MAN - Here is another quick study. Built the way you described it with the light coming from the gap between the curvy part and concave ceiling. Still hotspots because the light's earliest bounce near the light source is the most energetic. The room is also a bit darker as well. I could move the light source more up and closer to the gap opening but that would result in a far stronger hotspot (like Sample 1). It's a neat effect but it would result in a differently lit ceiling than what we've been shown.
