The Case for Working With Your Hands

[Robert Maxwell]

I think what kind of work you enjoy varies from person to person. I do fix things with my own two hands on occasion--there is some car work I am knowledgeable enough to do, and I enjoy building and repairing computers. But by day I do software, and I find it a very challenging and engaging field. I like being a "knowledge worker."

But I would agree that it's not for everyone, and it requires a set of critical skills that many people may not even be capable of developing. Any "one-size-fits-all" approach to workforce development is going to end in failure, which is why I have always been opposed to shipping out industrial base overseas. Our economy should be more diverse, not less. Pushing everyone into knowledge jobs only ensures that most of the people doing them would rather be doing something else.

 

[Tim]

I have always enjoyed using my hands (the scars will attest to that! ), so the sentiment of the article is right up my alley. There's a distinct sense of accomplishment after building something that I don't really get from the more abstract scientific work I do now.

 

[John Picard]

It doesn't make economic sense for me, for every hour I spend doing manual labour I would lose money, and a tradesmen would do it quicker anyway.

I think you missed the premise of the article, which explains that in the 1980's we (in America) were being sold the idea that being purely knowledge driven was the "way of the future". Being a tradesman was looked down upon, so schools were completely doing away with their trade programs.

I can't count the number of articles I've read in the last 10 years of people who went to school to become doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. only to realize 5 - 10 years in their profession that they hate, hate, HATE IT. One example was a lawyer who opened a bakery, and there was another of a doctor who, IIRC, became a mechanic.

Someone from Europe would need to chime in here, but it's my understanding that auto mechanics are literally revered there, whereas in the US most people tend to look down on them as grease monkeys.

 

[Triskelion]

What's smarter - working with your mind, or making more money?

 

[John Picard]

What's smarter - working with your mind, or making more money?

Is it really all about money?

 

[Emher]

Someone from Europe would need to chime in here, but it's my understanding that auto mechanics are literally revered there, whereas in the US most people tend to look down on them as grease monkeys.

Yeah I'd say that has some merit. A good mechanic is something you hang on to.

 

[Triskelion]

What's smarter - working with your mind, or making more money?

Is it really all about money?

Is it really nothing about money? Tell that to your dependents.

What good is a degree that doesn't get you a job? Universities are adept at making majors sound like plausible careers. Not always the case.

The money is a reflection of a market need. So what's more intelligent, developing academic skills for their own sake, or marketable skills?

Choosing marketability is not an unintelligent decision.

All business is the same - offer value, attract buyers, deal with competition, leverage productivity.

 

[JoeZhang]

It doesn't make economic sense for me, for every hour I spend doing manual labour I would lose money, and a tradesmen would do it quicker anyway.

I think you missed the premise of the article, which explains that in the 1980's we (in America) were being sold the idea that being purely knowledge driven was the "way of the future". Being a tradesman was looked down upon, so schools were completely doing away with their trade programs.

I can't count the number of articles I've read in the last 10 years of people who went to school to become doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. only to realize 5 - 10 years in their profession that they hate, hate, HATE IT. One example was a lawyer who opened a bakery, and there was another of a doctor who, IIRC, became a mechanic.

Someone from Europe would need to chime in here, but it's my understanding that auto mechanics are literally revered there, whereas in the US most people tend to look down on them as grease monkeys.

Since my PhD was about knowledge workers and my specialism is in the information sciences I'm perfectly aware of concepts discussed in the article, I was just commenting on my own situation. I wouldn't disagree with the broad thrust but I think it's looking in the wrong direction - if you have a reasonable level of education, you can generally find something to do - both the US and the UK have a bigger problem in that we have significant percentages of the population who have no skills - be they practical or academic. What we do with those people, I'm not sure...

 

[JoeZhang]

What's smarter - working with your mind, or making more money?

Is it really all about money?

Is it really nothing about money? Tell that to your dependents.

What good is a degree that doesn't get you a job? Universities are adept at making majors sound like plausible careers. Not always the case.

The money is a reflection of a market need. So what's more intelligent, developing academic skills for their own sake, or marketable skills?

Choosing marketability is not an unintelligent decision.

All business is the same - offer value, attract buyers, deal with competition, leverage productivity.

Indeed, I have an expertise in something I don't find particular interesting, I'd rather be writing comic books (shame it doesn't pay..)...but.. I've done shitty jobs like being a factory worker, a teacher etc and I'm rather do this vaguely boring but easy job for big bags of cash than those..

This gives me plenty of cash to indulge my hobbies like photography, travel etc. I work to live not live to work.

 

[CaptainStoner]

It took a while to start getting reasonably proficient, but with auto work one can save many hundreds, even thousands depending on the situation. All my life I've been hearing about how "cars are impossible to work on today", and "everything's computerized". But all the basics that a backyard mechanic would do are the same as they always have been. And those computer codes are extremely helpful.

There seems to be a scary sort of anti-DIY spirit, mainly having to do with making things sound a lot harder than they are. People are terrified to add RAM to their PC, much less fix their brakes for 10x less and in half the time the car would be in the shop.
Well, the first brake job didn't go that fast.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

I can't count the number of articles I've read in the last 10 years of people who went to school to become doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. only to realize 5 - 10 years in their profession that they hate, hate, HATE IT. One example was a lawyer who opened a bakery, and there was another of a doctor who, IIRC, became a mechanic.

How does one go to the long schooling of becoming a doctor and then, when its over, decide they hate it? "Oh, shit, I thought it would be money, money, money...but I have to touch old people and shit! Fuck that, I'd rather work on mufflers."

Mechanics in the US aren't that revered because we assume, like doctors and lawyers, that they are cheating us. And many of them probably are.

 

[John Picard]

It took a while to start getting reasonably proficient, but with auto work one can save many hundreds, even thousands depending on the situation. All my life I've been hearing about how "cars are impossible to work on today", and "everything's computerized". But all the basics that a backyard mechanic would do are the same as they always have been. And those computer codes are extremely helpful.

There seems to be a scary sort of anti-DIY spirit, mainly having to do with making things sound a lot harder than they are. People are terrified to add RAM to their PC, much less fix their brakes for 10x less and in half the time the car would be in the shop.
Well, the first brake job didn't go that fast.

Yep. I work on my own "computerized" cars and don't have a problem. And I agree about the ant-DIY mentality people have. You should see how some people "troubleshoot" problems on the Dodge forum I frequent. Their approach is to keep replacing stuff until the problem disappears, rather than careful, thoughtful diagnosis.

 

[JonathonWally]

and there was another of a doctor who, IIRC, became a mechanic.

I'd say those 2 fields are more similar than most people think. Cars are slightly easier in that you're able to "turn them off" to work on them and start them back up once you're done, people, not so much.

 

[sidious618]

Wally is right. I didn't know that and in a flash of an eye I was out of med school. Bunch of elitists.

 

[Plecostomus]

My schooling is in plastic, my trade is machining + sheetmetal.

I did that backwards, most machinists/sheetmetal-mechanics work the trade and become engineers.

It amazes people that I can layout and bend metal that I cut into shape with a laser/turret punch. *shrug* It's what I do. Making stuff is no big deal to me, they taught me how to think, and how to use tools.

Sadly it's a dying art, we have an entire generation of "info workers" with no practical skills beyond whatever software packages they've been taught. More and more people are being groomed for "management" positions, that is your end-all-be-all goal in life. "Become a manager."

Nice and all but what exactly are we managing?

 

[Tim]

and there was another of a doctor who, IIRC, became a mechanic.

I'd say those 2 fields are more similar than most people think. Cars are slightly easier in that you're able to "turn them off" to work on them and start them back up once you're done, people, not so much.

As a former orthopod with whom I currently work said, medicine is just "pattern recognition." Damn straight with all the memorize-and-regurgitate and pimping-on-the-wards BS that typifies the medical school experience.

 

[FPAlpha]

I can do most "small" stuff myself.. drill a hole without the wall looking like swiss cheese, assemble furniture, hammer in a nail and basic plumbing.

However i stay away from electricity.. i'm part colorblind so there's the risk of mistaking wires and burning down the house and the other part is that i just can't wrap my mind around which wire is for what and what happens if i plug them in the wrong way.

My experience with professionals in this business is.. if you're skilled and don't mind the work go for it. I've seen the prices they can charge (especially if they have a good rep and come with recommendations) and the kind of crap they are allowed to pull and to be honest.. it's not a bad career.

As has been said in the original article it's all about the service industry nowadays.. high wage, cerebral work that is regarded as a good career but those people can also be laid off rather easily however you'll always need electricity, water and properly installed windows. If you're good you'll be swamped with work.. i've talked to such people (even and especially when there's an economic crisis).

 

[SicOne]

My mom manages a law office back home; a former stepmom is a legal investigator in another law office; my brother-in-law is an attorney, and a former brother-in-law was a criminal defense lawyer (may still be, I dunno, lost contact).

Every one of them drinks to some extent. And they tell me that drinking is endemic in the legal profession. You get into it for the money, but it devours your soul.

In the "Philsophy in schools" thread, arguments were made for diverting the curriculum for students who were not going to go to college for a variety of reasons (mostly not being studious enough, or not wanting to go), and at some point college-bound students took more specialized classes, while non-college-bound students took more practical subjects like manufacturing, repair, etc. I don't have any strong feelings on the subject one way or the other, other than agreeing that kids should have to be in school during the day to keep them off the streets and away from the riff-raff, but I do think that if you're not going to go to college and prefer to learn something that you can work with your hands and you're basically marking time until you can graduate, that you ought to not have to take Algebra or Olde English Literature and can instead take shop or similar courses that will put you further down that path than wrestling with quadratic equations.

Not long ago, I read "World War Z" by Max Brooks, which chronicled a fictional zombie apocalypse during which the surviving United States had to put everyone to work, whether on the front lines against the zombies, or backing the soldiers up. IIRC, most of the people who worked in information technologies, banks, office jobs etc. were put to work farming, picking up trash, menial unskilled labor, as there was no call for their services in their previous fields of expertise.

Regarding working with your hands, that seems to be becoming a lost art. I suck at it; these things I'm typing with are called "hands" because of the position they occupy at the end of my arms; if you put tools in them, you're asking for trouble. For me, a screwdriver was what I'd use if I tried to pull the tab off the beer and it broke off. I have become better with age at simple repairs, but anything complex and I make enough money to call a professional; that way I know it's done right, the first time, nothing is going to spark or leak, and I don't have to hear from Mrs. SicOne on how shitty a job I did.

 

[John Picard]

In the "Philsophy in schools" thread, arguments were made for diverting the curriculum for students who were not going to go to college for a variety of reasons (mostly not being studious enough, or not wanting to go), and at some point college-bound students took more specialized classes, while non-college-bound students took more practical subjects like manufacturing, repair, etc. I don't have any strong feelings on the subject one way or the other, other than agreeing that kids should have to be in school during the day to keep them off the streets and away from the riff-raff, but I do think that if you're not going to go to college and prefer to learn something that you can work with your hands and you're basically marking time until you can graduate, that you ought to not have to take Algebra or Olde English Literature and can instead take shop or similar courses that will put you further down that path than wrestling with quadratic equations.

I honestly believe the the US public schools fail the students in many ways, aside from sticking everyone in the same mold. My dad attended a high school in Chicago called Lane Technical, back in the 1930's. According to him, it was one of the best in the city at that time, and every year the boys were evaluated for placement into the appropriate programs. In other words, the ones who would definitely do well in the engineering sciences were directed toward those classes, while those who would excel in tool and die, running machinery, or even carpentry (yes, carpentry is a mastered skill) were directed to those areas. I never realized that schools should be doing that until 20 or so years ago, and when I explained my thoughts to my dad, that's when he laid out the philosophy behind Lane Tech to me.

I also learned from a friend of mine, who is an anesthesiologist, that at least 15% of the people in his profession abuse narcotics to some degree.

 

[Triskelion]

“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.”


- Robert Heinlein