The Cage or Where No Man Has Gone Before?

[Warped9]

As others have already said this is a tough choice. I like both episodes given their merits and strengths.

But ultimately I have to give WNMHGB the nod. "The Cage" is unquestionably Star Trek, but it diesn't pop the way WNMHGB does--it doesn't have that added energy and dynamic that sets the tone for the rest of the series.

I really don't think "The Cage" is any more cerebral than WNMHGB but that it's somewhat more low-key in overall tone.

There's also an inescapable distinction between the series leads. Jeffery Hunter is serviceable as Pike, but William Shatner is magnetic and engaging as Kirk. It's no contest. Maybe Hunter would have grown into the role, but Shatner nailed it right off.


I'm glad they were able to use "The Cage" eventually and make it part of Star Trek's "in universe" history (indeed when I first saw "The Menagerie" I thought there were earlier episodes I had somehow missed out on).

Although thats not what happened it could have been interesting to have seen "The Cage" story done with the familiar cast during TOS' run. And perhaps we did in bits and pieces given the times Kirk was offered a form of paradise and yet regected it.

 

[Dude111]

I think they are both incredibly strong episodes. Tough to choose one over the other.

I picked THE CAGE but in reality like you said they are both good starters!!

 

[Lance]

I don't think anybody is seriously suggesting they aren't canon. I'm just making the observation that, if it wasn't for the clever idea of renaming most of the characters when they went to second pilot/went to series, then the status of the pilots would be more questionable. As it is though, Star Trek is one of the few TV shows that not only accepts it's ''pilot presentations'' into the show in almost their original form, with no further reshooting of scenes to make them tally with what was to come, but even uses them as plausible backstory for the characters.

We tend to think of 'the pilot' as being the first episode, or ''The One Where Everybody Meets Everybody'', or whatever. But really, it's just the parlance used to describe the presentation for the executives. Many TV shows don't have pilots as elaborate as ''The Cage'' and ''Where No Man...'', some pilots may not even extend to an narrative, but just give a general flavor of what the show will be like instead. We (the viewing public) rarely even get to see those kinds of pilots, unless they get leaked onto YouTube from eighth generation tapes.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I've always found "The Cage" to be the more compelling standalone story...but if we were voting for series leads, it would be the Shat all the way!

 

[Drone]

Sorry if it seems I'm being overly dense in readily comprehending your remarks. Maybe if I visited your lovely country my misapprehensions would float away into the ether.
What, my English unperfect? I speak and type it like a naive!
Timo Saloniemi

I primarily meant it as a complement to your fair climes. In fact, if I didn't know otherwise, I wouldn't even give a thought to your not being a native speaker of English, naïve or not.

 

[Push The Button]

Oh, tough choice here. My answer is..I love them both.

One of my fondest childhood memories is watching WNMHGB for the first time on my old B&W set one hot summer night, with the sound turned down low so I wouldn't wake anyone up, as it was on WJAR channel 10 at around 3AM.

I was happy that JJ brought the Pike character back for the new movies, even if it is an "alternate timeline" Pike.

Ok, now I'm going to have to watch both of them again tonight. And maybe Forbidden Planet too.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

"Where No Man Has Gone Before."

It's the quintessential Star Trek episode. Kirk takes a risk that puts the ship and crew in peril, which forces Kirk to make a difficult decision to save everyone.

Somewhere upthread someone mentioned that Kirk was being reckless in plunging the ship into the barrier. He wasn't. He was doing his job. It was his mission to probe further. Moreover, he states that they have to find out whether there's actual danger because other ships will eventually follow. It's a risk, but one Kirk feels justified in taking.

Of course, he deals with the consequences of that decision.

Moreover, Shatner as the captain brought more charisma to the character, which is essentially the same character that Hunter played just with a different name. The role evolved in part because of the actor playing him.

I also prefer the Spock-Kirk dynamic. (And yes Spock was the damn first officer in the pilot —*sorry not sorry all you Gary Mitchell lovers.)

I like that there is more tension in the Kirk-Spock interactions. I wish there had been more of that tension in the actual series. And it's something that's really picked up again in the Abrams' films. There's trust and friendship, but they don't always see eye-to-eye.

That said "The Cage" (or "The Menagerie") is a decent sci-fi story, but suffers from a bland cast, except for Nimoy who stands out. But when you break it down, it's just the story of a man's secret erotic fantasies.

 

[Lance]

I was happy that JJ brought the Pike character back for the new movies, even if it is an ''alternate timeline'' Pike.

Yeah, me too. And I really do think Bruce Greenwood did the part justice, imbuing it with just enough of Pike's character as seen in 'The Cage' to believably be the same person, while showing us a version of the character who is not racked with the same guilt that Jeffrey Hunter's version was suffering through. He did a lot to assauge any concerns I might've had about the 2009 movie.

 

[Drone]

"Where No Man Has Gone Before."

Somewhere upthread someone mentioned that Kirk was being reckless in plunging the ship into the barrier. He wasn't. He was doing his job. It was his mission to probe further. Moreover, he states that they have to find out whether there's actual danger because other ships will eventually follow. It's a risk, but one Kirk feels justified in taking.

Of course, he deals with the consequences of that decision.

That was me. I know that that Kirk and company didn't just happen to wind up at the barrier and decide to give it a go for the hell of it. I checked back and there isn't an explicit reference to a specific directive that they attempt to leave the galaxy, but it's more than a reasonable assumption.

My point was that given the facts as he knew them at the moment, it would have marked him with the qualities of a seasoned commander to have taken other preliminary steps easily available to him before deeming it prudent to proceed.
I'm not suggesting that he peremptorily decide to ignore his putative orders, but simply wait to make the decision to act until he could justifiably be reconciled that to do so wouldn't be immediately suicidal or, as proved to be the case (and was certainly suggested by the spot analysis of the Valiant's log), turned out to result in an existential threat that was barely averted. In either case, I think it eminently reasonable to suggest that Kirk didn't show the requisite probity, wisdom, and caution that would mark him as anything more than a neophyte in the role.

Now you can certainly argue that this is strictly an out of universe interpretation and regardless I appreciate that as the pilot, whenever it was actually to be broadcast in the queue, it had to hit the ground running and could not spend time setting up the dramatic action that would determine the disposition of the plot with some set pieces of wonky scientific analysis. As for dealing with the consequences, while Kirk did save the day by being able to make an appeal to Dehner while there was still time, I still think a future first season self-recognition and contemplation of the consequences of his recklessness could have added a compelling color to the palette drawn of his character. Perhaps though, such a portrayal would have been seen to inject an element of weakness or self-doubt that GR wouldn't have seen fit to even be intimated as part of Kirk's makeup.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"Where No Man Has Gone Before."

It's the quintessential Star Trek episode. Kirk takes a risk that puts the ship and crew in peril, which forces Kirk to make a difficult decision to save everyone.

...and in the face of a threat--probably to the galaxy if not contained; for a man battling feelings of friendship in decay, loyalty and betrayal while doing his duty, he paints a larger picture of a starship captain than Pike.

Moreover, Shatner as the captain brought more charisma to the character, which is essentially the same character that Hunter played just with a different name. The role evolved in part because of the actor playing him.

I also prefer the Spock-Kirk dynamic. (And yes Spock was the damn first officer in the pilot —*sorry not sorry all you Gary Mitchell lovers.)

The Kirk/Mitchell relationship was effective all in half of the pilot's running time, which sold the tension and tragedy of Kirk's overall situation. With only a few lines, one is invested in their 15 year friendship. Regarding Spock, as Nimoy has said time after time, that he could move into that colder personality by contrasting off of the energetic performance of Shatner, evident in the briefing room & cracking station scenes.

Moreover, Shatner as the captain brought more charisma to the character, which is essentially the same character that Hunter played just with a different name. The role evolved in part because of the actor playing him.

Not at all. In yet another way Kirk was a completely different character than Pike, we have the emotional framing of the chess game, and bridge epilogue, which was not in Hunter's approach to Pike at all. That had little to do with Pike's on-screen problems; both Pike and Kirk were put through serious situations, but Kirk--as written--has something which Shatner had, and Hunter did not--heart. That heart prevented both character & actor from behaving like a cold, distant person who was just occupying the job--or acting like it was a forced burden.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

In yet another way Kirk was a completely different character than Pike, we have the emotional framing of the chess game, and bridge epilogue, which was not in Hunter's approach to Pike at all. That had little to do with Pike's on-screen problems; both Pike and Kirk were put through serious situations, but Kirk--as written--has something which Shatner had, and Hunter did not--heart. That heart prevented both character & actor from behaving like a cold, distant person who was just occupying the job--or acting like it was a forced burden.

I think the casting of Jeffrey Hunter was a misfire altogether. He just wasn't as likeable as Shatner. It's hard to imagine Hunter opening up, being warm and accessible without being creepy. I can't imagine him giving Kirk's "Risk is our business" speech. I hear him giving it as a simple scolding, where Shatner spoke to inspire.

 

[Drone]

As I recall it, he was quite warm and not at all creepy in his reunion with Tango.

 

[feek61]

It's like choosing between your two kids!!!

I love them both!

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'll see your "Risk is our business" speech and raise you a Sermon on the Mount.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI0OhH5LU3A[/yt]

 

[Drone]

Outstanding pick!!!! The movie, that could be generously described as being panned at the time, has gained quite a bit of critical appreciation as the years have passed.

 

[Terok Nor]

Just watched "The Man Trap" (first aired episode).

Not as intelligent as either of the pilots but a damned good starting point for viewers as its incredibly accessible.

 

[Maurice]

I'll see your "Risk is our business" speech and raise you a Sermon on the Mount.

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Meh. Bland on dry toast.

 

[Marsden]

It's like choosing between your two kids!!!

I love them both!

Me, too!

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'll see your "Risk is our business" speech and raise you a Sermon on the Mount.

I'm a little confused right now, because another actor obviously supplied the voice of Jesus in that clip, but so far I can't find a mention of that on webpages about King of Kings (1961).

 

[GNDN18]

I'll see your "Risk is our business" speech and raise you a Sermon on the Mount.

I'm a little confused right now, because another actor obviously supplied the voice of Jesus in that clip, but so far I can't find a mention of that on webpages about King of Kings (1961).

To me, it sounds like Hunter, but more Mid-Atlantic than I'm used to. I think it was looped.