Well said... er, typed. No disrespect to "The Cage," but the second pilot involved a more compelling (and active) story.
The Cage or Where No Man Has Gone Before?
- Thread starter Terok Nor
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Well said... er, typed. No disrespect to "The Cage," but the second pilot involved a more compelling (and active) story.
Horseshit.
The notion that The Cage is absolutely the last word on Pike and the other characters is a complete failure of the imagination. It was one story. All you have to do to start the series is write the next one. The fact that the producers didn't doesn't automatically mean it can't be done. I can't believe this idea persists.
Or maybe I can, because the second pilot sold the series to the network and therefore gave us Kirk and Spock and started the ball rolling, and everyone implies from that that the first pilot must have been lacking in some way, so heaven forbid you use the characters again...except for a couple of flashback episodes...
I voted for The Cage because I would have killed to have a Star Trek based on the Enterprise crew as depicted therein. While WNMHGB is a very good episode, it is by no means better, and I personally have never found Kirk and Spock all that awesome.
I have to disagree that The Cage was a broad depiction of Pike and his crew. They had just been severely beaten down on Rigel VII. We see Pike at a low point. However at the end of the episode Pike is back and ready to go on for more adventures.
(Pike, Number One and Spock enter)
BOYCE: Hold on a minute.
PIKE: Oh, I feel fine, just fine.
BOYCE: You look a hundred percent better.
PIKE: You recommended a rest, a change of pace, didn't you? I've even been home. Does that make you happy?
Then the last few lines of dialogue:
PIKE: [...]What are we running here, a cadet ship, Number One? Are we ready or not?
ONE: All decks show ready, sir.
PIKE: Engage.
(Pike, Number One and Spock enter)
BOYCE: Hold on a minute.
PIKE: Oh, I feel fine, just fine.
BOYCE: You look a hundred percent better.
PIKE: You recommended a rest, a change of pace, didn't you? I've even been home. Does that make you happy?
Then the last few lines of dialogue:
PIKE: [...]What are we running here, a cadet ship, Number One? Are we ready or not?
ONE: All decks show ready, sir.
PIKE: Engage.
The first season of TOS basically was that, all they really did was change the names.
Disagree, or am I mistaken in noting that the first officer in the regular series was neither Human nor Female? Or were the go-go boots and micro-skirts the women wore an optical illusion?
I meant what I said. The Star Trek I wanted to see was the Star Trek of the Cage, women in pants, Pike in command, female first officer...hell, you can even keep all the cobra heads on the control panels.
The point is, the pilot does little to make anybody want to imagine an extension or an evolution.
We see how this character tackles an adventure: by letting it happen. We see how an adventure concludes: with him walking away from it. We get a character arch that's flat enough to get Pike an exemption from further military service.
This all is because the adventure takes place during a blue moment in the character's life, obviously. Big fat consolation: the damage is already done. All the novels making use of Pike burden him with residue of this brooding and self-doubting loser who has trouble dealing with female affectations, even when the stories themselves are essentially very upbeat and heroic like Oltion's Where Sea Meets Sky. Okay, so that one is about a doomed culture that plays sore losers, too. But so is Children of Kings, too. The stigma just sticks.
I'd have liked to see that, too. That doesn't necessarily make "The Cage" the better pilot, though (although I feel that series would have been the better one).
They kept the "eek, a female yeoman on my bridge!" aspect for one episode (not the pilot!) but totally lost the "two chicks competing for the clueless skipper" angle due to the different cast. They kept the "Steady ahead, I won't explain to you why I feel there is no real danger but I will keep my calm" angle but then spread it out so that Spock was the other calm guy, indeed the calmer guy by far. The old country doctor was kept as is, but they lost the eager youngster. And the rest they made up for TOS, with no "The Cage" precedent.
I really don't see the "direct continuation" interpretation as being particularly prominent.
Timo Saloniemi
(Extends hand) Allow me to introduce myself: I'm "Anybody" and I imagine new Pike stories all the time, because I liked the character.
And then we were given the Prime Directive, which made letting it happen a matter of policy. And somebody who goes looking for adventure might...I dunno...kill a guy wearing a red shirt every week.
Right, at the request of the natives, who flat out told him there was nothing more productive he could do by staying...and they held him imprisoned for most of the episode, meaning the only reason for him to stay after he was released would be to seek revenge. Since he isn't really bloody minded and is not likely to stay where he's not really needed, what other choice was there for him but to walk away?
Who's military? He did his best to escape from enemy captivity and avoided starting a war that would have gotten United Earth's ass beat. Loyalty and cool-headedness are what most fleets are looking for in the people they give command of big ass ships to.
Because the tie-in writers have about as much imagination as you seem to concerning the character. No human being is ever just what you see in the first meeting, but understanding that would require you to look past the events of the Cage, which nobody does, because that womanizing idiot Kirk is the franchise.
Forget the pilot. It's Pike's crew that's better.
For me, Kirk's crew is much better. If Pike's crew remained intact, it would basically be the adventures of Pike and Number One and I believe Spock would never have had a chance to grow as a character. He'd be relegated to 3rd wheel or further down the totem pole.
I can only see the doctor in a wise uncle or father role to Kirk. I can't really see him contributing much in the landing parties or pulling his own weight in the brawls they are always finding themselves in. Of course, Number One would most likely be left in command in those dangerous situations.
The chemistry just isn't there for me. Pike comes off as an isolated loner and there were really very few crew members besides the doctor and maybe Number One ,who I could see him developing a reciprocal relationship with. It would be interesting to see a few episodes but I doubt it could sustain itself for very long with that cast.
I can only see the doctor in a wise uncle or father role to Kirk. I can't really see him contributing much in the landing parties or pulling his own weight in the brawls they are always finding themselves in. Of course, Number One would most likely be left in command in those dangerous situations.
The chemistry just isn't there for me. Pike comes off as an isolated loner and there were really very few crew members besides the doctor and maybe Number One ,who I could see him developing a reciprocal relationship with. It would be interesting to see a few episodes but I doubt it could sustain itself for very long with that cast.
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While I like them both, I chose "The Cage". I think it's a great episode and I love the character of Pike. I find him a refreshing change from the "Starship captain" archetype. He had something to say, we get to know him a little and where he is in his life. Kirk was just there, we didn't really get to know much about him.
NBC was right to reject the entire cast except Hunter and Nimoy, and they apparently weren't wild about either one, but they were "fine" and "okay". Majel brought absolutely nothing to her role, and that nepotism was a suicidal move on Roddenberry's part. The rest of the cast was largely forgettable except for John Hoyt.
WNMHGB all the way.
WNMHGB all the way.
I assumed our Finnish friend was making a "flat feet" joke. (Although it's a character arc, not arch.)
Thanks. The ultimate proof is what set the hard template for ST..and what sold ST. It was not gimmicks or kiddie material like most Irwin Allen series, but a thought provoking drama that left observers wanting more in that direction. "The Cage" did not have that effect.
True--for the most important reason of all: Hunter's Pike would never give Nimoy his oft-stated contrast to take Spock in the direction seen when paired with Shatner. Without him, the key to all of the character development opportunities granted to Nimoy cease to exist.
"The Cage" is interesting in a bubble--that throwback, very Forbidden Planet / This Island Earth-styled characterization worked for the kind of story told, but that was not going to grow or support the kind of late 60's science fiction commentary ST tackled. Being a first pilot, Roddenberry's 50's influence was not yet ready for the clever, more insightful sc-fi to come, which is why the 1st pilot would have made a good, stand alone movie, but not as a proper introduction to a continuing character drama.
tht character was combined with Spock.
Considering Where no Man Has Gone Before used the same uniforms as The Cage, doesn't mean the would have kept them if they kept the Cage crew.
Which was basically season 1 Kirk.
Blame Roddenberry not wanting to recast for that one.
The Cage in all its Forbidden Planety goodness, maybe because it could be described as Star Trek in its purest and least distilled form.
I prefer "Where No Man Has Gone Before." I really love the dynamic between Kirk and Spock. The entire briefing room scene is among my favorite Trek segments.
To reduce it to its basics we must imagine the world of Trek minus one of the two episodes. How oten do we talk about Gary Mitchell or Dr. Piper. Not very often. Now imagine Capt. Pike and the history of the Enterprise gone from Canon.
Where No man has gone before is a great episode but The Cage is a crucial one.
Where No man has gone before is a great episode but The Cage is a crucial one.
I disagree that season one Kirk was basically PIke. I can't imagine Hunter in an "Enemy Within" type of scenario, you really need an over-actor for that one. Hunter was certainly not the fist pounding "Doesn't logic DEMAND ... " type that we see later in Season 2. I don't know Hunter's other acting, but he seemed way too reserved throughout the entire thing.
Without either there would have been no Star Trek. Both are equally "crucial."
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