I wouldn't think so, because then they would automatically have been included in restored versions of The Cage.
The Cage episode
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I wouldn't think so, because then they would automatically have been included in restored versions of The Cage.
That's true, but in The Menagerie wasn't the "wild little animal" line spoken during a "shown on the viewscreen" process shot, as opposed to appearing in fullscreen? That could have made a difference if they were editing around it. Or maybe the error was made when they were adding in the line about "A curious species..." and accidentally omitted Pike's adjacent line in the process.
If I had my DVD of The Menagerie with me, I'd just check it now instead of speculating about all this...
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Funny, when Pike used that description, one gets the impression he compared her to a timid and delicate doe or fawn. At least, that's what I thought from the way he said it. But when the Talosians "pick up" on this, into what do they change Vina? A savage "wild cat", something that would devour the "timid little doe"...and Pike for that matter...and not in a nutritional sense! 
Sincerely,
Bill
Sincerely,
Bill
Funny, when Pike used that description, one gets the impression he compared her to a timid and delicate doe or fawn. At least, that's what I thought from the way he said it. But when the Talosians "pick up" on this, into what do they change Vina? A savage "wild cat", something that would devour the "timid little doe"...and Pike for that matter...and not in a nutritional sense!
Sincerely,
Bill
The Talosians may have found some Freudian thingy in Pike's mind that was sublimating a "wildcat" image into a more acceptable image of a helpless wild creature, thus causing him to "hide his fantasies even from himself." That's assuming that in the TOS universe Freud was "right."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpnuULBPF5s
Picnic scene at around 25:00 into the video
Laser scene at 39:00.
Check it out.
Picnic scene at around 25:00 into the video
Laser scene at 39:00.
Check it out.
Aha. Not there. 
I meant those other two lines were not there. "Probing you, searching for weakness" and "Do you want to gamble we won't?"
I just played back MeTV's cut-for-commercials, TOS-R version of "The Menagerie" Part II on my DVR, and "wild little animal" line is intact. And I'm happy to hear it.
What a slapdash effort this "Restored Version" was (at least on the DVD; the Blu-ray might be different). Not only did they wrongly alter the pitch on the other Talosian's line and completely omit the "wild little animal" line, but they screwed up the music in the Orion sequence.
That line was actually "spoken" by the second Talosian. In the color DVD version of The Cage, it's been misattributed to the Keeper and correspondingly raised in pitch. Easy mistake to make when they don't move their lips.
When the rock wall appears behind Pike, the music is supposed to fade out - he turns around in reaction to the sudden silence. In the "Restored Version," the music doesn't fade out and he turns around for no reason.
That line was actually "spoken" by the second Talosian. In the color DVD version of The Cage, it's been misattributed to the Keeper and correspondingly raised in pitch. Easy mistake to make when they don't move their lips.
In checking the Final Draft script (November 20, 1964) for "The Cage," the script indicates:
***********
SCENE 101 MED CLOSE - KEEPER
watching the screen, forehead veins throbbing, as if reading deep into the thoughts of the two. Then:
THE KEEPER
A curious species. He has
fantasies he hides even from
himself.
**********
Why do you think it was supposed to have been the First Talosian that was delivering the line, instead of The Keeper?
Because the voice (both in its original pitch and in its altered pitch) doesn't sound like Malachi Throne, and because the other Talosian looks over at the Keeper in a way that suggests "saying" the line to him.
I doubled back and checked out the two versions of "The Cage" on the old, original "two episodes per disc" DVDs. The old black and white work print footage of the scene in question with the original deep Malachi Throne sounds like, well, Malachi Throne to me--and seems to match the few other work print clips that contain his voice. The other version of "The Cage" included on the disc (with the "recently" found missing color footage, and with Throne's voice raised in pitch to match the rest of the cannibalized footage from "The Menagerie") also sounds like Throne to me.
I always thought the First Talosian turning to watch The Keeper during this bit of dialogue was meant to convey that the First Talosian was being attentive to what his boss The Keeper was "saying," not that he was, himself "saying" the line.
It's interesting: there's been a slight editing change in the latest remastered version of "The Cage." As the "a curious species" is being delivered, the two-shot of the Talosians is not the same shot as it had been; it does not now have the First Talosian glancing at The Keeper. Their attention is focused on the screen for the full three-second shot.
However, the "glance at The Keeper" three second shot is used: it shows up in the remastered version as Vina delivers the "A person's strongest dreams are about what he can't do" line. Interestingly, in the original version, the camera stays on Susan Oliver during her lines. Now, it cuts away in the middle of her dialogue to the "glance at The Keeper" two shot. So now, the First Talosian glances over at The Keeper, apparently in response to Vina's observations about Pike.
I've just watched both pilots on the BluRays, to be honest, I'm not really seeing a big difference in the "cerebral" vs. "action" quotient when comparing the two (other than the timing of WNMHGB's fight happening in the last act, which is maybe for what the network was looking). This has probably been brought up before, but it makes me think Roddenberry's "too cerebral" bit is bunk, and the network wanted other changes instead. Probably things he didn't fully agree with, so he has to belittle those changes as a "dumbing down" of his initial concept.
One other thing: this was probably the first time I ever watched them back-to-back, when doing so I was struck by how much higher the production values are for the "The Cage", something I'd never really noted before.
One other thing: this was probably the first time I ever watched them back-to-back, when doing so I was struck by how much higher the production values are for the "The Cage", something I'd never really noted before.
^^^There may be some truth to the idea that GR was just having a sour grapes attack over the pilot's rejection. However, I do think there is a ring of truth to the idea that he and his team lost sight of the original goal which was to produce an entertaining weekly series. "The Cage" is damn good ("too good for television" may be a stretch) as a stand-alone movie. Remember, that up to then the standard for "quality sci-fi" was "Forbidden Planet". This was an attempt to reach beyond that and as Roddenberry said they went for something proud. It doesn't seem too far-fetched that the network might have been impressed with the efffort, but disappointed that what they were promised was not what they got delivered.
Thanks for your research on this. I could easily have been mistaken. The two voices are fairly similar.
All the more reason the full black-and-white version should be released for reference purposes!
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