The Cage, Discovery, and Soft Canon

[WarpFactorZ]

Discovery, in its infinite retcon, is methodically contradicting many canon aspects of the Cage -- the uniforms (as we see from the S2 teaser), the design of the Enterprise, women in command, etc.. Personally, I don't mind this at all. The Cage was a one-off show conceived before anyone even imagined that Trek would have the longevity it does, and before Trek was even Trek. Add to that much of the dialogue from the Cage is cheesy pulp sci-fi, like "We've broken the time barrier!", and you can see it's a huge outlier.

Instead of dissing Discovery for erasing things established in the Cage, perhaps it's time to simply look the other way. Uniforms aren't sweaters with huge collars? Big deal. The nacelle struts are wrong? Close enough. Bridge doesn't look like a cardboard set from the 60s? Ehn. The Women! are staffing the bridge, despite Pike's stern objections? Yawn.

I propose that we instead adopt "soft canon" for the Cage, and to a similar extent, Where No Man Has Gone Before (James R. Kirk, anybody?). Earlier Trek should be viewed as foundational, but allowed the flexibility to grow into what it has become. Nothing should be taken literally or at face value, other than it's a story about the Enterprise and its crew.

Discuss!

 

[Tuskin38]

Things that were a product of era should be ignored, like the woman thing and his casual sexism.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I agree. Honor the spirit of it (except the outdated sexist bits), but don't get fixated on the details to the point where you're afraid to alter them.

 

[The Wormhole]

The Women! are staffing the bridge, despite Pike's stern objections? Yawn.

Pike's objection to women on his bridge besides Number One is contradicted in the episode itself when other women can be seen at background stations. Hell, here's one standing right in front of him.
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0275.jpg

 

[Mudd]

Discovery, in its infinite retcon, is methodically contradicting many canon aspects of the Cage -- the uniforms (as we see from the S2 teaser), the design of the Enterprise, women in command, etc.. Personally, I don't mind this at all. The Cage was a one-off show conceived before anyone even imagined that Trek would have the longevity it does, and before Trek was even Trek. Add to that much of the dialogue from the Cage is cheesy pulp sci-fi, like "We've broken the time barrier!", and you can see it's a huge outlier.

Instead of dissing Discovery for erasing things established in the Cage, perhaps it's time to simply look the other way. Uniforms are sweaters with huge collars? Big deal. The nacelle struts are wrong? Close enough. Bridge doesn't look like a cardboard set from the 60s? Ehn. The Women! are staffing the bridge, despite Pike's stern objections? Yawn.

I propose that we instead adopt "soft canon" for the Cage, and to a similar extent, Where No Man Has Gone Before (James R. Kirk, anybody?). Earlier Trek should be viewed as foundational, but allowed the flexibility to grow into what it has become. Nothing should be taken literally or at face value, other than it's a story about the Enterprise and its crew.

Discuss!

Honestly I don't care. They can change whatever they like and the new version is either good or it isn't.

 

[Tuskin38]

Pike's objection to women on his bridge besides Number One is contradicted in the episode itself when other women can be seen at background stations. Hell, here's one standing right in front of him.
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0275.jpg

Well he does act like it is a new thing.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Pike's objection to women on his bridge besides Number One is contradicted in the episode itself when other women can be seen at background stations. Hell, here's one standing right in front of him.
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0275.jpg

Right. Drop the contradictory dialogue, and get on with the story. Hopefully, these will be more coherent than Season 1.

 

[Tuskin38]

Right. Drop the contradictory dialogue, and get on with the story. Hopefully, these will be more coherent than Season 1.

So keep on doing what they were doing? Got it.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

So keep on doing what they were doing? Got it.

Yeah. Good point. Easier to stoke a dumpster fire than to put it out.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Discovery, in its infinite retcon, is methodically contradicting many canon aspects of the Cage -- the uniforms (as we see from the S2 teaser), the design of the Enterprise, women in command, etc.. Personally, I don't mind this at all. The Cage was a one-off show conceived before anyone even imagined that Trek would have the longevity it does, and before Trek was even Trek. Add to that much of the dialogue from the Cage is cheesy pulp sci-fi, like "We've broken the time barrier!", and you can see it's a huge outlier.

Instead of dissing Discovery for erasing things established in the Cage, perhaps it's time to simply look the other way. Uniforms are sweaters with huge collars? Big deal. The nacelle struts are wrong? Close enough. Bridge doesn't look like a cardboard set from the 60s? Ehn. The Women! are staffing the bridge, despite Pike's stern objections? Yawn.

I propose that we instead adopt "soft canon" for the Cage, and to a similar extent, Where No Man Has Gone Before (James R. Kirk, anybody?). Earlier Trek should be viewed as foundational, but allowed the flexibility to grow into what it has become. Nothing should be taken literally or at face value, other than it's a story about the Enterprise and its crew.

Discuss!

Nope. Discovery isn't erasing anything. It's being it's own, separate take on the Star Trek universe where although the broadest strokes remain the same, things look and occur a little differently.

And despite some fans' bizarre beliefs, that doesn't make it ANY lesser.

 

[BillJ]

...that doesn't make it ANY lesser.

The poor writing takes care of that.

 

[Tuskin38]

And despite some fans' bizarre beliefs, that doesn't make it ANY lesser.

I wouldn't think of it as any lesser if the people working on the show said it wasn't Prime.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Maybe "flaccid canon" would be better?

 

[Christopher]

Discovery, in its infinite retcon, is methodically contradicting many canon aspects of the Cage -- the uniforms (as we see from the S2 teaser), the design of the Enterprise, women in command, etc.. Personally, I don't mind this at all. The Cage was a one-off show conceived before anyone even imagined that Trek would have the longevity it does, and before Trek was even Trek.

Note that, as of the end of season 1/start of season 2, the show is taking place in late 2257, which is at least 3 years after "The Cage" -- a bit more than the interval between the 5-year mission and ST:TMP. Now, TMP did the same thing Discovery did, redesigning everything wholesale, and fans convinced themselves it was plausible that such a complete transformation could be explained simply by the passage of the few years and an upgrade in the ships, equipment, uniforms, etc. So I don't see why it's any harder to use the same handwave here. Sure, things look "Cage"-like in the second pilot, but that's still nearly 7 years in the future.

But you're right -- the handwave isn't even necessary. These are artistic and dramatic simulations of a conjectural future, so of course they change over time and in different creators' hands. The TOS pilots were a rough draft; this is a more refined interpretation informed by decades of evolution of the Trek universe and filmic technology.

 

[Tuskin38]

Note that, as of the end of season 1/start of season 2, the show is taking place in late 2257, which is at least 3 years after "The Cage" -- a bit more than the interval between the 5-year mission and ST:TMP. Now, TMP did the same thing Discovery did, redesigning everything wholesale, and fans convinced themselves it was plausible that such a complete transformation could be explained simply by the passage of the few years and an upgrade in the ships, equipment, uniforms, etc. So I don't see why it's any harder to use the same handwave here. Sure, things look "Cage"-like in the second pilot, but that's still nearly 7 years in the future.

But you're right -- the handwave isn't even necessary. These are artistic and dramatic simulations of a conjectural future, so of course they change over time and in different creators' hands. The TOS pilots were a rough draft; this is a more refined interpretation informed by decades of evolution of the Trek universe and filmic technology.

I wish more people could see this as we do.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It’s just a show, Star Trek is not nor was it ever intended to be some perfect record of future history. It’s meant to be entertainment, not something to be obsessively studied. Remember what MST3K taught us. Repeat to yourself: It’s just a show, I should relax.

But if it really bothers you, Q did it.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm still going with the agnostic approach I've decided to go with.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I can not treat this situation as I would with the movies. Unlike the movies, where the look was established in the first film and there was no earlier film to show the things to come, there is the original series which shows the things to come. The look of the Enterprise, both the interior and the exterior, in "The Cage" was accepted as an earlier version of the starship when elements of that pilot were incorporated into "The Menagerie". There was a continuity from the first pilot to the regular series episode. This has been changed by Discovery.

I am treating Discovery as a re-imagining of the Star Trek universe. If they can keep the sexism of the original at bay, this would be an improvement in the design of the universe. This issue is one of the reasons I no longer enjoy the older series.

 

[fireproof78]

Note that, as of the end of season 1/start of season 2, the show is taking place in late 2257, which is at least 3 years after "The Cage" -- a bit more than the interval between the 5-year mission and ST:TMP. Now, TMP did the same thing Discovery did, redesigning everything wholesale, and fans convinced themselves it was plausible that such a complete transformation could be explained simply by the passage of the few years and an upgrade in the ships, equipment, uniforms, etc. So I don't see why it's any harder to use the same handwave here. Sure, things look "Cage"-like in the second pilot, but that's still nearly 7 years in the future.

But you're right -- the handwave isn't even necessary. These are artistic and dramatic simulations of a conjectural future, so of course they change over time and in different creators' hands. The TOS pilots were a rough draft; this is a more refined interpretation informed by decades of evolution of the Trek universe and filmic technology.

This needs to be emblazoned in bronze.

 

[Noname Given]

The poor writing takes care of that.

What the heel does ST:VOY have to do with ST: D?