The Borg's most powerful weapon

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by TheOrbitalDrone, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. TheOrbitalDrone

    TheOrbitalDrone Ensign Newbie

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    Do the Borg have any weapons that could destroy a entire planet like Species 8472?
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We know the Xindi had that, but they got help from the future. Nobody else has demonstrated this ability on screen or in dialogue (although many can kill all life on a planet easily enough, or slag the surface and the mantle!).

    Would the Borg hold this ace in their sleeve? Well, why not? We never saw a situation where they'd actually need to blow up a planet.

    And the Borg do hold some aces in their sleeves, or at least our heroes don't spot them at first. The very trick of assimilation through nanoprobe injections is one of those originally!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. TheOrbitalDrone

    TheOrbitalDrone Ensign Newbie

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    What about the multikinetic neutronic mine from VOY: Scorpion part 2, where Seven of Nine said they were to equipped it with the nanoprobes to destroy Species 8742? If they shot one of those to a planet, do you think the planet would be destroyed?
     
  4. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is the device that resembled the Borg defector ship Lore had, right?
     
  5. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

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    I think the Borg are responsible for the Hobus supernova (i.e. they destroy Romulus' star as a last resort in a losing battle).
     
  6. TheOrbitalDrone

    TheOrbitalDrone Ensign Newbie

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    Oh, the mine is identical to that ship.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or at least the graphic on screen is of that ship. Is it of the mine? Or of a ship intended to deploy the mine, perhaps in some quantity?

    But the idea of the device is not to destroy targets kinetically. Rather, it is to spread nanoprobes over a wide area, without destroying those nanoprobes (or, apparently, their intended targets, which will only be destroyed by the nanoprobes afterwards). Seven only speaks of the detonation having the required "range" and "dispersive force", Tuvok of the kaboom "affecting" entire star systems; they don't speak of the mine blowing up enemy vessels or planets as such.

    Our heroes liken this device to a weapon of mass destruction in some sense. It blowing up planets would qualify, but if it does that, what's the point of the nanoprobes? OTOH, if it indiscriminately spews nanoprobes across five lightyears, that, too, is mass destruction from the hero POV. Even if from the Borg POV, this is merely mass charity...

    Certainly a weapon that can assimilate worlds within five lightyears at the push of a button is impressive, and in many ways much more powerful than the Species 8472 gun that can merely blow up planets! No wonder Janeway wasn't keen on cooperating on that tech.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Other than the Doomsday Device, or Soran, or Nero, or the Genesis Device, or the bomb the DSC crew placed under Qonos, or subspace weapons, or knocking a an asteroid out of its' flightpath with tractor beams, or drilling down to a planets' core with phasers, or V'Ger, or gravimetric weapons....
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, sorta. Weapons that specifically blow up planets are rare: Soran's nova bomb only provides that as a side effect, the Genesis Effect is not know for blowing up the planet it mangles, core drilling is not quoted as capable of blowing up planets (see "The Die is Cast" and the capabilities of a large bombardment fleet over an extended period of time), asteroids are trivially deflected (see "Rise"), V'Ger never blew up a planet...

    In the end, only the DDM seems to qualify. Do the Borg have that? Hard to tell. But DDM isn't "somebody", or somethig "somebody" would have, at least not according to the speculaltion of our heroes. Although that speculation doesn't appear to be based on anything much.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure you mentioned anything about specific intent, or "exploding"

    Sorans bomb blows up planets.

    So does the Genesis Device

    V'Ger raises your "explode" and introduces "digitise" (aka "remove from existence")

    The Die is Cast shows a bombardment intended to wipe out a population, not cut down to the planets' core, but we know very well the Ent can surgically alter a planets' geology by cutting through to pretty much any depth from which it's merely a matter of scale,

    and the DSC bomb, subspace weapons,

    In fact you'd probably find it easier to list the species who don't have the capacity to destroy a planet somehow.
     
  11. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Captain Captain

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    The is why the lack of Planetary System security worries me with the 24th century UFP. You already saw the Dominion try to cause a "SuperNova" in the Bajoran Sun to wipe out Bajor and all the planets in that system.

    They almost succeeded as well.

    The knowledge of how to artificially force a Star to go SuperNova is "VERY DANGEROUS"

    Ergo Planetary System & Planetary Body security should be of utmost importance.
     
    Spot261 likes this.
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Umm, I covered other means of loss beyond the 8472-style literal blowing up by saying that they exist, in great variety. Slagging the surface, "The Die is Cast" style, would be one of these others.

    And apparently anybody can blow up planets if one first has access to a star one can use as a bomb - Picard nearly did that in "Half a Life". OTOH, planets in general ought to survive nova-bombing, even if nothing on then does. Would Soran's bomb have done better? We never see it actually destroy a planet!

    [/quote]So does the Genesis Device[/quote]

    Not to our knowledge. The Genesis Planet did not blow up as far as we could see - it may have "torn itself apart", perhaps endlessly redoing itself, but we didn't see it go away. So, onen of "the others".

    Perhaps. But again, we never see that happen. All we see is a nice slideshow involving things looking like planets. And other stuff. Has any of that really been removed from existence?

    And we know the scale, too - Starfleet can't do it, and the Romulans and Cardassians put together couldn't do it even when they went way overkill and decided to destroy the mantle, too. So it's not among the set of evidence, even if it's not part of "the others", either. It simply is never seen happening.

    The former can destroy Qo'nos but not, say, Earth. The latter never were indicated as being capable of blowing up planets.

    Which I just don't see as an interesting answer to the question, when actual 8472-style destruction is so rare. Hence "the others". A large enough bunch of Pakleds armed with carpet knives would get there eventually, too, but "Scorpion" is qualitatively different.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Spot261

    Spot261 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So basically not a unique ability at all really?

    Fixed your tags by the way ;)
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Interestingly, again, nova-bombing never works against the usual players: they don't lose planets to that. A Klingon forward outpost is lost in "Image in a Sand" but, say, Qo'nos is not.

    Does this mean that the usual players are extremely skilled at stopping suspicious projectiles? Doesn't appear so. So are they skilled at protecting themselves from mere nova flares, while a supernova is too difficult to create in a generic star (even though it can be an accidental result in certain specific types of exceptional star, as in "Half a Life)? Or did the players just dodge the bullet for other (political?) reasons until Romulus did not?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    thank goodness the Organians step in to stop war.. when they occasionally.. feel like it.. for reasons.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks. But yes, making a planet go kaboom is pretty darn unique in onscreen Star Trek. If only the DDM can compete evenly with the 8472 ...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Captain Captain

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    KeyWord: Occaionally, feel like it, for reasons.

    I'd rather not rely on them if possible.
     
  18. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Captain Captain

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    Maybe the Klingons actually have more security then they let on.
     
  19. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    it would be a nice little short trek where after grieving, Carol Marcus gets on with her work on Genesis only to find one day all copies of research materials, data and hardware is missing with a small card saying
    "Nope.

    Sincerely,

    Organia

    P.S. none of the spore drive, either

    p.p.s what's with the accent?"
     
  20. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Captain Captain

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    Yeah, I doubt they would leave any note if they did operate like that.