The Borg

[at Quark's]

^In order to beat these supposedly (near-)invincible Borg, you need either:

a) access to a power greater than theirs, or
b) unexpected weak spots and/or Achilles' heels

There aren't many more flavours than that, I'm afraid.

a) was used in the first episode (Q Who), and b) essentially in all the episodes after that, having the collective (pun intended) effect of nerfing the Collective more and more.

 

[JesterFace]

Picard had been a Borg, he knew a thing or two about it.
Maybe he chose the plan that had more potential to work.
Plan 1 was to send Hugh back with something printed on his memory that could damage the Borg.
Plan 2 was to send an individual Borg to the collective, a drone that was already a member of the hive mind. That could be more effective.
Also, plan 1 was like Geordi said, sending Hugh cack to the collectice like a walking bomb, plan 2 was more "human" way to do it.
STNG, the trial of humanity, works well in that way.

Also, here's where my headcanon comes in. Prepare for.... weirdness.
As I'm not a fan of what happened in Descent 1 & 2, I like to think that what Picard anticipated in 'I Borg' did happen. After 'I Borg' there was no Borg. There were individual Borg drones like we saw in 'Descent' only individuality spread through the entire collective, not just one ship that picked up High. But that's just me, fortunately headcanon is allowed.

 

[Jedi Marso]

(The real life reason is of course budget constraints. In the original Borg concept, they were supposed to be insectoid.)

Insectoid Borg would have been the stuff of nightmares. Especially arachnid-esque Borg. Picard would have used the virus on them then. I hope.

 

[Frostscape One]

That's why 31 infected the founders. Nechayev probably was working with 31, that would make perfect sense. Doesn't make it right to, as Guinan put it, use a person to destroy his race, like 31 used Odo.

I actually don't think Necheyev was working with or for Section 31. I think it's too easy to lump any decision made by an admiral that seems morally controversial as being a part of that organization.

Necheyev was a bit cold and a hard ass, but I never got the sense that she was a 'badmiral' or nefarious or evil. I find her one of the more interesting ones during the TNG/DS9/VOY era. (I think a series set in the mid 24th century with her character as one of the leads or recurring would be interesting.

 

[DonIago]

Insectoid Borg would have been the stuff of nightmares. Especially arachnid-esque Borg. Picard would have used the virus on them then. I hope.

Kind of horrible to think that whether or not Picard chose to use the pretty picture would be solely dependent on what the Borg looked like.

 

[DonIago]

I actually don't think Necheyev was working with or for Section 31. I think it's too easy to lump any decision made by an admiral that seems morally controversial as being a part of that organization.

Necheyev was a bit cold and a hard ass, but I never got the sense that she was a 'badmiral' or nefarious or evil. I find her one of the more interesting ones during the TNG/DS9/VOY era. (I think a series set in the mid 24th century with her character as one of the leads or recurring would be interesting.

Given Nechayev's generally cool interactions with Picard, I actually found her antagonism toward him here relatively understandable. She comes off as being a strict pragmatist who wasn't around during the events that she's judging and is looking at it solely in terms of what she believes would have been the best option for the greatest number of people.

 

[Frontis]

I never really cared about the Borg being logical.
What counted for me was that've been scarry and dangerous.
Later, especially in Voyager and Picard they got ridiculous.

 

[TheCaptainsLog]

Kind of horrible to think that whether or not Picard chose to use the pretty picture would be solely dependent on what the Borg looked like.

So you're saying that Picard's decision on insect hive mind horde with lasers and interstellar travel that want to assimilate you should clearly be rejected, but because Borg are white and humanoid that having a hive mind with lasers and interstellar travel might be ok ... within certain parameters... Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[at Quark's]

Kind of horrible to think that whether or not Picard chose to use the pretty picture would be solely dependent on what the Borg looked like.

In fact, I could see TNG Picard make a speech on that. How we shouldn't decide to take the more destructive course of action of the two just because they look scary and repugnant to us.

 

[SithTheSeason]

Won't a cube be the most efficient space ship design? Maximum space and no need for being streamlined as space travel doesn't demand it

 

[TheCaptainsLog]

Won't a cube be the most efficient space ship design? Maximum space and no need for being streamlined as space travel doesn't demand it

You wouldn't be able to pass through atmospheres though, you have to have a way to deflect heat and gases.

 

[at Quark's]

Won't a cube be the most efficient space ship design? Maximum space and no need for being streamlined as space travel doesn't demand it

You wouldn't be able to pass through atmospheres though, you have to have a way to deflect heat and gases.

The Borg value efficiency, but they don't necessarily have the same ideas about it as we do. Look at how easily they sacrifice drones in phaser fires before they adapt, for example. Our idea of efficiency probably would be to let the enemy fire, analyse their phaser frequencies and adapt, while taking cover until that adaptation is complete. They don't.

 

[DonIago]

So you're saying that Picard's decision on insect hive mind horde with lasers and interstellar travel that want to assimilate you should clearly be rejected, but because Borg are white and humanoid that having a hive mind with lasers and interstellar travel might be ok ... within certain parameters... Is that what you are suggesting?

I'm saying that if Picard's decisions regarding the Borg are based solely on their physical appearance that that's pretty damn awful of him.

 

[Ferengi Prime 5]

The Borg is an expanding empire, but at some point, expanding empires stop expanding. The Borg, as far as we know, use the assimilation of other species to expand their numbers. Once they stop expanding, how will they keep their numbers growing or steady? Would they have to start using cloning? If they chose cloning, would they pick one species or several to clone?

 

[DonIago]

I imagine drones can have children if needed to support the drone population.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Borg Mom: "You will assimilate the Brussel sprouts. You will add their biological distinctiveness to your belly."

Borg Child: "But I want desert!"

Borg Mom: "Desert is irrelevant."

Borg Child: "But, mom!"

Borg Mom: "Resistance is futile."

 

[Mojochi]

I actually don't think Necheyev was working with or for Section 31. I think it's too easy to lump any decision made by an admiral that seems morally controversial as being a part of that organization.

Necheyev was a bit cold and a hard ass, but I never got the sense that she was a 'badmiral' or nefarious or evil. I find her one of the more interesting ones during the TNG/DS9/VOY era. (I think a series set in the mid 24th century with her character as one of the leads or recurring would be interesting.

She sure as hell ain't squeaky clean IMHO. Forgive my off topic side bar, but she relieved Picard of command, to illegally send him on an obvious suicide mission, into Cardassian space, with an almost pointless team, under circumstances that screamed "tailor made trap", for no other reason than "Well, we should probably check that out", which was either a sign she's almost as dumb as Kennelly (which I doubt) or she was just plain indifferent about losing him, in order to answer the question "Hey, do that have that big, stupid, unlikely weapon they probably don't have?"

The bloody Romulans swore off metagenics. You think the Cardassians are better able, to work that risky a gambit, than the Romulans were? C'mon. I'd have a permanent problem with her, after being ordered into enemy hands, to be tortured on.

Anyway... I think she just don't like Picard. TBH, he's something of a boy scout, and some of his calls put the best interest of Starfleet second to morality, & I have no problem imagining that officers, peers, superiors, of a number of types, have considered him a royal pain in the ass. lol

 

[DonIago]

I rather liked it when Picard tried to get on better terms with Nechayev and she in turn softened a bit toward him. The way she was generally portrayed was interesting at first but it became very one-note, but there was some potential here for a recurring admiral with whom Picard had an understanding of sorts but never quite a friendship.

Her appearance in "The Search" was especially interesting; one wonders whether the admiral as depicted was based on any real knowledge of who she was, or merely Our Heroes' understanding of her reputation.

 

[Frostscape One]

She sure as hell ain't squeaky clean IMHO. Forgive my off topic side bar, but she relieved Picard of command, to illegally send him on an obvious suicide mission, into Cardassian space, with an almost pointless team, under circumstances that screamed "tailor made trap", for no other reason than "Well, we should probably check that out", which was either a sign she's almost as dumb as Kennelly (which I doubt) or she was just plain indifferent about losing him, in order to answer the question "Hey, do that have that big, stupid, unlikely weapon they probably don't have?"

The bloody Romulans swore off metagenics. You think the Cardassians are better able, to work that risky a gambit, than the Romulans were? C'mon. I'd have a permanent problem with her, after being ordered into enemy hands, to be tortured on.

Anyway... I think she just don't like Picard. TBH, he's something of a boy scout, and some of his calls put the best interest of Starfleet second to morality, & I have no problem imagining that officers, peers, superiors, of a number of types, have considered him a royal pain in the ass. lol

Considering how cagey and arrogant the Cardassians are, I'm not surprised in the least that they could potentially try making a metagenic weapon. It's a serious enough threat that it warrants at least finding out if it's real.

As for her feelings about Picard... from her point of view, I can understand why she might not really like him. Him not even attempting the Borg program with Hugh alone would be reason enough to give the admiralty pause on his competence regarding Federation security. (I don't think this has been mentioned before, but his lack of using that program is probably what Starfleet meant in FIRST CONTACT when they didn't want Picard there to fight in the Borg battle.)

And she had a point: his job is to safeguard Federation lives, not wrestle with his conscience. In this case, it's not even just Federation lives... it's the entire galaxy. Every person the Borg killed or assimilated after "I Borg", Picard is at least partially responsible for. Doesn't matter if the program would have worked or not... he didn't even try to take down an existential threat to all life. Had he tried and it didn't work, I wouldn't fault him because he made the effort.

It was a moral decision and that's admirable and a good thing. But when faced with an enemy that will destroy your very existence and cannot be reasoned with, he should have made the hard call. And for that, I can see why many admirals (and likely other officers) would have an issue with Picard.

I rather liked it when Picard tried to get on better terms with Nechayev and she in turn softened a bit toward him. The way she was generally portrayed was interesting at first but it became very one-note, but there was some potential here for a recurring admiral with whom Picard had an understanding of sorts but never quite a friendship.

Her appearance in "The Search" was especially interesting; one wonders whether the admiral as depicted was based on any real knowledge of who she was, or merely Our Heroes' understanding of her reputation.

Sisko did have at least one meeting with Nechayev prior to "THE SEARCH, PART II" fake version... in "THE MAQUIS, PART II".

He didn't like her then, either. (To be fair, given that conversation, I can see why. Though considering Sisko DID still protect Hudson at that point without her knowing the entire situation at that point, I can't fault her entirely for what she said, either.)

 

[Mojochi]

(I don't think this has been mentioned before, but his lack of using that program is probably what Starfleet meant in FIRST CONTACT when they didn't want Picard there to fight in the Borg battle.)

Rather than the abstention from having taken action against them, I had assumed it was more likely the him having been one of them situation, myself lol.

Honestly, I'm just going to figure there were no small number of people at HQ, who got word of him feeding, curing, & lending aid to a Borg drone, so to return it freely back to its ship, as damn near all the evidence they needed, to confirm he might still hold an allegiance to them. How THAT never surfaced is beyond me. He must have some incredible advocates down there somewhere.

Another thing that bugs me... maybe their suspicions, while mostly wrong, were at least understandable, given that WE actually see him affected by if not actual live influence from The Borg, in that movie, then at the very least some kind of nightmare PTSD, that's still haunting him, which seems like the kind of thing Troi might get around to noticing, given she can tell when the dude has a hard-on for a coworker.