The Borg Vs. The Romulans.
- Thread starter Meredith
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I think that would have been the case (if Q hadn't already exacerbated the Borg probing into UFP/Rom space), in fact it appears that the new movie suggests the Romulans have an Area 51 where Borg technology was back-engineered for the military.
RAMA
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IIRC, writer Maurice Hurley was going to have the Borg annihilate the Romulans completely somewhere towards the end of season two. He left the show before he could do it, though.
I wonder just how many races have an Area 51 type facility for reverse-engineering Borg tech?
I wonder just how many races have an Area 51 type facility for reverse-engineering Borg tech?
I see a few stories there...
Wasn't he thinking about having a Romulan-Federation alliance to fight the (insectoid) Borg?
I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure if the idea of annihilating the Romulans came before the Borg were converted from insectoids to cyborgs, or after. I wouldn't be surprised if Romulan survivors joined the Federation to fight them off, though.
I recall hearing that as well
As I recall, the story was going to be that the LAST Romulan ship managed to destroy the Borg ship that had destroyed their Empire, and Picard would spend time trying to learn how the Romulans did it. I may still have the interview where Hurley discusses that around here someplace.
Well, it would have spared us Nemesis.
Aha! I remember reading that too, now that you've said it. (It's actually a rather interesting idea, IMO.)
I think I read it in the relatively short lived 'Star Trek Magazine.' I bet I have the issue at my parents' house, although I'm not sure which one.
Praetor, remember my entry in that ''if you were in charge of enterprise'' thread awhile back? I remember that ''one'' of my ideas was that SECTION 31 was not the only ''MIB'' type organazation in the galaxy! Which would explain why they ''somehow'' had connections to one or two members of the Klingon ''councel' I remember also saying that ''S-31'' may have also had contact with ''other'' MIB groups, maybe even the Tal'Shear! So I would not be suprised if there are more then a cupple of secret orgs out there!
And Sela!
I wonder what would have happened if Hurley had wiped out the Romulans early on - would we have seen the Tholians helping to turn the tide in DS9 instead? Maybe the Ferengi?
And Sela!
I wonder what would have happened if Hurley had wiped out the Romulans early on - would we have seen the Tholians helping to turn the tide in DS9 instead? Maybe the Ferengi?
Well, it would have to be someone reluctant to enter the fight, so clearly the Tholians and Ferengi both fit that bill. The Tholians seem so similar to the Breen, though, and the Ferengi - well, they're Ferengi.
I choose Tholians.
I'm a bit surprised it took that Enterprise episode before they made a come-back actually, especially given the DS9 writers' love of TOS. I suppose they were in a different part of the galaxy, and they're tough to realise.
Maybe the throwaway Tzenkethi might have made an appearance?
On the other hand, having the Ferengi save the galaxy would probably have appealed to Ira Behr.
Maybe the throwaway Tzenkethi might have made an appearance?
On the other hand, having the Ferengi save the galaxy would probably have appealed to Ira Behr.
But it did add to their intrigue. Until ENT did the 'spider' approach, I'm not sure anyone could settle on the best way to do them justice. For the record, I like the spider approach.
Frell that, use their inspiration, the Kzinti!
^I will give ENT that--their Tholians were pretty well-realized. Credit where credit is due.
Ultimately, though the Romulans never lived up to their potential, I don't think, making the decision between Seasons 1 and 2, that I'd have basically destroyed them (I wouldn't have destroyed them in the novels, either, but that's another matter altogether
). The Borg were briefly interesting but not worth the loss of those who were probably the Federation's most fascinating antagonists.
Plus, they were a major factor in DS9, in plot if not in character (although I love Vreenak and Koval's too-short appearances). Anyone else other than the Romulans in Pale Moonlight would have been underwhelming, in comparison to what we got... then again, you guys are floating the Ferengi, would Garak have assassinated Grand Nagus Zek instead of Senator Vreenak? How would Quark fit into that?
As for Sela, I'm on the fence with her. I don't like the notion of human-anything (or anything-anything) hybrids, because it's stupid. At the same time, I thought it was a suitably dramatic reveal... even though as a threat she never really amounted to much, I guess.
A funny thing just occurred to me: might Generations have worked better with Sela than the Duras sisters (aka worst recurring Trek villains ever)? We could've had Nimoy... and a Kirk-Spock meeting a good century after the former's death would have been bittersweet as hell.
Ultimately, though the Romulans never lived up to their potential, I don't think, making the decision between Seasons 1 and 2, that I'd have basically destroyed them (I wouldn't have destroyed them in the novels, either, but that's another matter altogether
). The Borg were briefly interesting but not worth the loss of those who were probably the Federation's most fascinating antagonists.Plus, they were a major factor in DS9, in plot if not in character (although I love Vreenak and Koval's too-short appearances). Anyone else other than the Romulans in Pale Moonlight would have been underwhelming, in comparison to what we got... then again, you guys are floating the Ferengi, would Garak have assassinated Grand Nagus Zek instead of Senator Vreenak? How would Quark fit into that?
As for Sela, I'm on the fence with her. I don't like the notion of human-anything (or anything-anything) hybrids, because it's stupid. At the same time, I thought it was a suitably dramatic reveal... even though as a threat she never really amounted to much, I guess.
A funny thing just occurred to me: might Generations have worked better with Sela than the Duras sisters (aka worst recurring Trek villains ever)? We could've had Nimoy... and a Kirk-Spock meeting a good century after the former's death would have been bittersweet as hell.
Ultimately, though the Romulans never lived up to their potential, I don't think, making the decision between Seasons 1 and 2, that I'd have basically destroyed them (I wouldn't have destroyed them in the novels, either, but that's another matter altogether
Plus, they were a major factor in DS9, in plot if not in character (although I love Vreenak and Koval's too-short appearances). Anyone else other than the Romulans in Pale Moonlight would have been underwhelming, in comparison to what we got... then again, you guys are floating the Ferengi, would Garak have assassinated Grand Nagus Zek instead of Senator Vreenak? How would Quark fit into that?
I agree. I personally would not have been able to 'pull the trigger' on the Romulans. (Obviously I have a personal affinity for the Romulans.
) I think the simplest solution for Maurice Hurley is to have used another less important TOS adversary race - the Gorn, just for an example - as the race that is exterminated by the Borg but also manages to defeat a cube and fuels the Enterprise's quest to understand how. Either possibility would have negated the need to 'replace' the Romulans with someone else in the Dominion arc on DS9, and offered the chance for us to see more of the Romulans.The Romulans have always been underutilized - to some regard, the limit that we have seen of them has IMO added to their intrigue, in contrast to the Borg, who many argue were diminished by overuse. What we have seen, for me at least, has made me want to know and see more. I think they suffered in some regard from the 'personality transplant' that occurred between them and the Klingons between TOS and TNG. Really, I suppose it is TNG that is to blame for this. The Klingons seen in the films prior really didn't appear to have much in the way of honor. Obviously, there were Cold War metaphors involved there: the UFP was meant to represent the USA and her allies, the Klingons the Russians, and the Romulans the Chinese.
Ironically, the Romulans were conceived on TOS to be the 'honorable' race, as evidenced in 'Balance of Terror.' Excerpted from 'The Making of Star Trek,' page 256-257. Pay close attention to the last paragraph.
Obviously, there are some glaring contradictions to the latter portrayal of the Romulans that may not be reconcilable - particular the rank scheme. Compare all that to the first paragraph from the description of the Klingons from pg 257.
Sounds a little different from the Klingons we're used to, doesn't it? The rest of the description of the Klingons actually isn't that incompatible with the Klingons we actually saw: promotion by assassination, privateer-like behavior. The only other eyebrow-raising line might be one implying that the Klingons constantly monitor everything going on in their society - something that seems to be more closely associated with the TNG-era Romulans.
Many explanations could be offered to retcon these differences away. The description above might be said to be written with a Romulan-favoring/Klingon-hating slant. The Klingons may also have undergone some dishonorable makeovers in the TOS era. (ENT certainly implies that the genetically altered smooth-brow Klingons were more human-like, and possibly then less honorable in the eyes of 'regular' Klingons.)
The manual that came with the 'Klingon Academy' game several years back was written from a late-23rd-century Klingon perspective and, in addition to a rather fascinating perspective on the Federation, evaluates the Romulans as a once-honorable civilization comparable to that of the Klingons that is becoming corrupt. (I believe they attribute this to the extreme poverty of the Empire.) It also attributes this to the reason that the Romulan-Klingon alliance dissolved - the Klingons believed they were being 'corrupted' by the Romulans' 'decadence.' Seems like 'Rome in Spaaace' to me.
I can't help but wonder if the modern Romulan culture reflects what Vulcan would be like if the Awakening of Surak had not happened? Why were the Romulans able to survive, if in the pre-Surak dark times the Vulcans were fighting constantly and on the verge of destroying themselves as Spock infrequently described? Is it, as TMoST seems to suggest, that where the Romulans dedicated themselves to total logic and peace, the Romulans dedicated themselves to 'warrior stoicism' and it is only the poverty of the Empire that prevents it from being something greater?
Personally I think there is a lot of potential in the Romulans - particularly to show us a somewhat repressive, impoverished culture and corrupting democratic political body with a somewhat entrenched aristocracy that is quite different from any of the other 'enemies' of the Federation we've seen. They display equally honorable and dishonorable traits; like the description says, it is in some ways very hard to hate them. They are complex, and it seems as if they have been driven to their way of life by the choices made by their ancestors to reject logic and settle a region that emerged to be relatively resource-poor. In essence, the are understandble but their way of life is incompatible with the Federation philosophy of tolerance and diplomacy, because the Romulans' very nature demands aggression and the survival of the strong.
I have always thought it would have worked better dramatically had the Romulans actually 'broken' Yar, and Sela actually turned out to be a brainwashed, alternate Yar from 'Yesterday's Enterprise.' There would then be a possibility of redemption, and still the bitterness of facing down a familiar face.
I don't know... while intriguing, that might have been too much. However, Sela would have worked nicely in the original version of 'Insurrection' that featured the Romulans as the antagonists trying to gain control of the dilithium-rich B'aku planet. IMO, the 'Fountain of Youth' idea would have been a nice secondary discovery, rather than a main motivation. This would have also set us up for a potentially better 'Nemesis.'
^That's a brilliant idea ''Praetor''! it certainly would have made 'INSURRECTION' far more interesting! Sad that your a better ''idea'' man then those clowns in charge at paramount!
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