The Borg footage in Emissary - far too brief to be engaging

[Navaros]

I get the impression that at the time, the Borg appearing in Emissary was a very hyped-up deal (although I did not personally witness the hype at the time, so I could be wrong).

In any case, the Borg in Emissary were vastly under-used, and therefore inffective.

The Borg footage is way too brief. It feels like the Borg sequence is over before it even started.

For that reason, to me the Borg sequence in Emissary comes across as extremely half-baked and mechanical, and therefore not emotionally engaging at all.

The Borg are 'meh' when then they should be 'whoa!'

How they could have done it better: devote 15-20 minutes of screentime directly to the Borg brutally kicking the Sisko family's butt.

 

[DevilEyes]

How they could have done it better: devote 15-20 minutes of screentime directly to the Borg brutally kicking the Sisko family's butt

Uh... how? Have 15-20 minutes of the ship getting hit and various extras dying while Sisko runs around looking for Jennifer? I would be bored, and it would just be wasting valuable time in the pilot, needed to establish the premise of the show and the main characters. DS9 was not about the Borg and Wolf 359. The footage we got did exactly what was needed: showed how Sisko lost his wife, and why he had a problem with Picard.

 

[Saquist]

I don't agree.
Trek isn't a smash fest.
It's about story and the Borg weren't the story just the background. There was no reason to inflate thei imagery as we were really learning about Sisko and his loss, not the Borg and Sisko.

 

[Shatinator]

Yes I agree also, the borg storyline served it's purpose just fine as it was.

-The Shatinator

 

[DonIago]

Agreed with the above (i.e. not the OP).

Also, for the time, I believe that footage was some of the most extensive combat footage we'd had in Trek to that point. Just the fact that more than two ships were involved makes it notable.

What 15-20 minutes of footage would you cut from the episode to accommodate your changes?

 

[TheGodBen]

The scene wasn't about the Borg, it was about Ben's loss. 15 minutes of battle footage wouldn't have increased the loss.

Also, this was one of the more effective uses of the Borg precisely because the Borg didn't waste time taking on the fleet, it was more like "Bang! You're destroyed, next target." If you want to see a ship take on a Borg cube for 15 minutes then watch Unimatrix Zero, if you want an effective and poignant use of the Borg then watch Emissary.

What 15-20 minutes of footage would you cut from the episode to accommodate your changes?

I'm guessing anything involving the Bajorans.

 

[DS9forever]

The Borg and the Battle of Wolf 359 were the backdrop to the introduction of Sisko and the death of Jennifer. It was never meant to be the focus. Its probably why the original battle scenes were scrapped.

 

[Withers]

Emissary is as close as any Trek series episode ever got to the emotionally gut wrenching ten minute opening of Star Trek (09) and I think it was done exceptionally well. More explosions and more redshirts dying as Sisko tried to find Jennifer wouldn't have made the scene any more emotionally traumatic. More shots of the Borg wouldn't have helped anything.

If you wanted more out of that scene look to XI for an example of how it might have been done better. (Rather than having Jennifer dead... just have her trapped but still talking and Ben forced to leave her for the sake of Jake or something like that.) Either way I think what was shown was done pretty well given that at the time they were coming off TNG (which had exactly zero scenes as emotionally moving as the opening of Emissary thanks in no small part to the 'no harm no foul' clause written into basically every episode.)

I can't think, off the top of my head, of a moment anywhere in Trek where I would say "More Borg" so as to make what was shown better with the one notable exception being First Contact (where lack of Borg on the surface seemed like a silly oversight.)

-Withers-​

 

[Hober Mallow]

I disagree that it wasn't engaging. I certainly was engaged the first time I saw it. Enthralled, actually. It was easily at that time the most ambitious space battle we'd ever seen on televised Trek, and it was a perfect introduction to Sisko. It was also a fairly long teaser. I didn't feel like it was all that brief.

I guess I disagree with pretty much everything you said.

 

[Shazam!]

devote 15-20 minutes of screentime directly to the Borg brutally kicking the Sisko family's butt.

Yawn.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I can understand that some of us would have liked to have seen more of the Battle of Wolf 359--given that we only saw its aftermath in TNG--but I agree that it wasn't the primary focus of DS9's opening. It was about Ben Sisko losing his wife and barely escaping with his son (in the window of Sisko's quarters, we saw a Federation ship getting casually fragged outside like it was nothing).

If anything, how brief it was in DS9 showed just how quickly and easily a Locutus-led Borg ship kicked Starfleet's butt at Wolf 359. Daang...

 

[PorthosShadow]

This is the same complaint some leveled at the BSG mini-series when they wanted to see some Battlestar's get wasted by The Cylons. In the commentary for the mini-series Ronald Moore explains that those scenes weren't important to the story.

I have to agree, the story is of importance and in regards to both DS9 and BSG, the big explosions are secondary.

 

[Arix]

I agree with everyone else. 15-20 minutes of a Borg battle? Are you joking? Seriously, I cannot think of anything Emissary needed less.

The reason it was so hyped up was because we didn't get to see the Borg at Wolf 359 in The Best of Both Worlds, we only got to see the aftermath. So of course it was exciting because of that, but it only served as a backdrop for the emotional story of Sisko losing his wife!

I'm not going to say any more because I'd just be making the same points everyone else already has.

 

[eepruls]

I actually dislike Emissary because it has so much talking - "What is this?" It spent way too much time in the Prophet realm. I always find myself saying, "Okay, we get it, you're mysterious beings that don't understand us. Next." It needed more in the real world and I think that's what the OP is alluding to. Personally, I would rather see anything other than boring chit chat with the Prophets and endless crap with the Bajorans. Yawn.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Completely disagree. What we got was pretty much dramatically perfect for what it needed to be. 15-20 minutes of Wolf 359 would have been nothing more than pointless eye candy.

Of course, I guess that's what some people want to see.

 

[Lateralus]

I also agree with everybody except the OP; The Emissary had excellent pacing. And given the lack of intention to make the Borg a focus in the series, there was zero reason to devote more of the storyline in the pilot to their existence.

 

[Baconnaise]

I have to agree with all the responses to the original poster.

Special effects and battles are a fave of mine with DS9 partly no doubt about it. The best battles or long ones should be reserved for movies of Trek imo which they fail to deliver (reboot did ok). When I watch a movie I want to be entertained and zipped along in battles that the budget wouldn't account for in the series.

Series = Story and effects secondary

Movie = Action and effects

 

[Tyjos Azari]

I liked it, it was quick and rushed showing the frenzy of what was going on at the time....any longer and it would have gotten boring.

 

[Kai Winn]

i quite liked the fx, but brooks' poor acting ruined much of the battle anway. to watch him coping with the loss of beloved jennifer was embarrassing. i did not understand his hate towards picard either, picard was instrumental in destroying the wolf 359 cube later on after all.

 

[Withers]

I actually dislike Emissary because it has so much talking - "

Yes. I too find that dialogue and plot often gets in the way of more exciting elements like explosions and rampant chaos. This phenomenon seems to be widespread. After all just look at the wild popularity of the movie 2012.

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