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The Borg Aren't Too Clever

They referenced the "Collective" as a whole in TNG, not as "Individual Collectives". So even then it was clear that there was one big mind controlling all Borg.
Yeah, but even then they were obviously WRONG, since Hugh's influence didn't spread beyond his own ship. The other problem is that Starfleet didn't know enough about the Borg to determine if the entire species was linked, or just groups of them in a particular collective, or even if it was groups within groups connected through hierarchical networks that are interconnected through various hubs. That isn't clear even now, and the presence of the Borg queen just muddies the water.

The other problem is something to consider carefully: Borg "drones" have no individuality, and while it is common to think of them as individuals who have lost their individuality, from the BORG perspective individuality is probably a trait possessed by their SHIPS, not their members. To put that another way: to Starfleet, "A borg" is a cybernetic drone composed of a humanoid body and some mechanical implants. In reality, "A Borg" is a gigantic cube-shaped space organism composed of tens of thousands of humanoid bodies.

Anywho, like I said having the Borg as a random thing they would encounter in space wouldn't be dramatically satisfying. The audience would expect a full-on confrontation and battle instead of VOY running away all the time and be disappointed when all it amounts to is them just hiding or running.
Why would the audience EXPECT this? Nobody expected a full-on confrontation with the crystaline entity. Nor did we expect a full on confrontation with whoever created the Doomsday Machine. Indeed, the Borg could have been cast as a hybridized but terrifying version of BOTH of these: roving doomsday machines that destroy everything they encounter and must be either avoided or (by the grace of God and these photon torpedoes) destroyed before they can cause too much trouble. Since they come and go on a whim, you can only deal with the ones that happen to be in the neighborhood, and sometimes you have to choose whether or not to deal with them at all if you're in a region of space very far from home.

A full-on confrontation would be implicitly out of the question; one might as well declare war against hurricanes.
 
Why would the audience EXPECT this? Nobody expected a full-on confrontation with the crystaline entity.

Because the Entity wasn't featured in two or so major episodes that featured actual all-out battling, while the Borg were. Once confrontation was shown (Q Who? and BOBW) the audience would expect that to occur in other Borg stories where the Borg were the antagonist.

Nor did we expect a full on confrontation with whoever created the Doomsday Machine.

Because it was implied they were already dead, and that the Machine was worse than they were.

Indeed, the Borg could have been cast as a hybridized but terrifying version of BOTH of these: roving doomsday machines that destroy everything they encounter and must be either avoided

Avoided, as in the heroes spend the episode running away or hiding. Thus coming off as wusses to the audience.

or (by the grace of God and these photon torpedoes) destroyed before they can cause too much trouble.

Thus decaying them as villains.


Since they come and go on a whim, you can only deal with the ones that happen to be in the neighborhood, and sometimes you have to choose whether or not to deal with them at all if you're in a region of space very far from home.

Like I said, due to the way they were portrayed before the audience would want a full-on confrontation with the Borg.

What they SHOULD have done is just accept the original aliens VOY created as its' own antagonists. Instead they hated all of them, without exception, and forced the Borg decay on themselves. The fans are to blame for the whole mess.
 
Why would the audience EXPECT this? Nobody expected a full-on confrontation with the crystaline entity.

Because the Entity wasn't featured in two or so major episodes that featured actual all-out battling, while the Borg were. Once confrontation was shown (Q Who? and BOBW) the audience would expect that to occur in other Borg stories where the Borg were the antagonist.
I wouldn't. Enterprise actually HID from the Borg on two seperate occasions after BOBW.

Besides, by "full-on confrontation" I thought you were referring to an invasion or a war-like situation. Simply trading torpedoes with a Borg cube trying to stop it from eating Rigel-VII (a la planet killer) wouldn't exactly fit that description.

or (by the grace of God and these photon torpedoes) destroyed before they can cause too much trouble.

Thus decaying them as villains.
That's my point. The Borg don't need to be "villains." Just predators, boogeymen, monsters whose motives are as incomprehensible as they are destructive.
 
The borg aren't clever, the borg are relentless.

... and i'd presume they are downloaded back to a new organically grown body
Never saw this, are you thinking of nuBSG?

No of course not. But the Borg "took their comrades bodies" in the original encounter in QWho... communicate wirelessly all of the time... have a device that records the 'orders' they are given. So its a reasonable supposition (hence 'presume'). Or take it the other way: there's 100,000 drones, they just do what they are told, and losing a few for an attack is unimportant, to the collective.

... in round 2 they could readily cut down 39 starships with little or no damage.
The Enterprise was late to the battle of worf 359, the fleet was already destroyed, the borg cube hadn't moved on, indicating it was heavily damaged.

It is fair to say the cube was damaged, but the 39 other ships were... completely destroyed. Certainly the cube regenerated to the point where the Mars defense perimeter and the Enterprise-D couldn't take it out.

My conclusion: if body counts don't matter, sacrifice a few to get intelligence. If damage doesn't matter, since it is just repaired and then the whole WEAPON SYSTEM is ineffective, take the damage to learn your opponents offensive capabilities. I'd call that pretty clever.

What's actually not clever is when the Borg fall prey to a weapon they know all about... the first few phaser shots in First Contact, the Tommy gun in the same movie. Huh? Never adapted beforehands, have you guys?
 
I wouldn't.

You are an unfortunate minority.


Besides, by "full-on confrontation" I thought you were referring to an invasion or a war-like situation. Simply trading torpedoes with a Borg cube trying to stop it from eating Rigel-VII (a la planet killer) wouldn't exactly fit that description.

Any battle between VOY and a Cube for whatever reason is a confrontation. And it would be derided in that VOY wasn't destroyed in 20 seconds by said Cube.

That's my point. The Borg don't need to be "villains." Just predators, boogeymen, monsters whose motives are as incomprehensible as they are destructive.

Borg doing bad stuff makes them villains to the audience. Bottom line.
 
Borg doing bad stuff makes them villains to the audience. Bottom line.

The shark from Jaws "did bad stuff." It wasn't a "villain" as such; that is, it wasn't a villain in the mustache-twirling look how sinister I am! sense of the Borg Queen.

That's pretty much the only way the Borg could work out plausibly: as a "villain" in the sense that they're so completely alien that the concept of "motive" as we know it doesn't apply to them.

Your objection to "confrontation" is noted, but irrelevant. A creative solution can always be found for why such a confrontation is either avoided (i.e. Voyager isn't here to fight Borg, it's here to barter for a replacement warp coil, and the arrival of the Borg cube is just an obstacle to getting out with the goods) or terminated indecisively (using some kind of technobabble or fancy maneuver to damage/confuse/disable the Borg long enough to get away from them). This would work just as well in Voyager as it would in TNG, especially if you make it dramatically clear (and due to their power, dramatically neccesary) for Starfleet officers never to dare trying to take the Borg on their own terms.

A better example would be the first Matrix movie. Nobody bothers fighting with an Agent until Neo tries it for the first time. Despite the fact that he nearly DEFEATS agent smith, he ends up running from them anyway, because AGENTS CAN'T BE KILLED. His suddenly becoming Supreme Being of the Internet is a bit of a saving throw, but the concept of "unstoppable bad guy you can't kill even if you beat him" is hardly alien to audiences, and I think you're giving your fellow trekkies too little credit.
 
If they ran away from the Borg, they'd just get derided for being cowards or incompetents in not finding a way to fight back.

If they use technobabble, then they get derided for using technobabble.

Frankly, this whole mess started with FC where we saw that Starfleet weaponry could damage and potentially destroy the Borg (they had Picard's help but their weapons did win).

VOY was able to pull off what you suggest by having all the fighting be between the 8472 aliens and the Borg, but unfortunately the audience despised the 8472 aliens for exactly that reason (they could fight back) and thus that particular plot was ineffective.

Basically, the audience showed it would've hated what you're suggesting.

As such, VOY HAD to fall back on having the VOY crew defeat the Borg in their encounters, to the Borgs' decay.
 
If they ran away from the Borg, they'd just get derided for being cowards or incompetents in not finding a way to fight back.
By you, I'm sure. Those of us who were actually paying attention would remember that a single Borg Cube once chewed through a fleet of forty starships on its way to Earth; people who remember this would not expect a single starship lost in space on the ass-end of the galaxy would all by themselves discover how to defeat the Borg single handedly.

If they use technobabble, then they get derided for using technobabble.
Well, no, they (the writers) get derided for using technobabble to solve what should otherwise be a DRAMATIC problem, not a TECHNICAL one.

VOY was able to pull off what you suggest by having all the fighting be between the 8472 aliens and the Borg, but unfortunately the audience despised the 8472 aliens for exactly that reason (they could fight back) and thus that particular plot was ineffective.
Actually, I think the audience despised 8472 because they were silly looking and--unlike the Borg--DID appear to operate with a comprehensible objective of galactic conquest and genocidal mayhem. The Borg were still a sufficiently black box (pun intended) that you could make them out to be a pack of disorganized predatory juggernauts who were better off avoided than trying to take head-on. 8472 was dramatically unnecessary for the purpoes they served, in fact their appearance in the middle of Borg space made it all the worst since it both castrated what was an otherwise reputable badass race and lead to the creation of an alien-of-the-week species that nobody knew or cared about.

Basically, the audience showed it would've hated what you're suggesting.
What I'm suggesting has never been tried, at least not on Star Trek. OTOH, it was tried on Firefly, and managed to keep Babylon 5 afloat right up until the allies DID find a way to counter them (and then only by massive firepower and the collection of multiple allies from thousands of worlds, at which time the Shadows had evolved into a military force themselves). So, yes, it could have worked, had it been tried. It would have been at least superior to the Borg Queen's petty trifling and nonsensical "I could kill you now, but I think I'll let you go for some reason" comic book villainy.

As such, VOY HAD to fall back on having the VOY crew defeat the Borg in their encounters, to the Borgs' decay.
They didn't HAVE to at all. The entire premise of the show was that the Voyager crew was a lost vessel trying to get back to Earth; it's the one situation in all of Trek where trying to avoid them is dramatically justifiable in every case.

I dare say the "audience" would only expect a full-on confrontation if they were seriously deluded as to what Voyager was about, or if the series had painted a much weaker picture of what the Borg were than we had gotten in previous years. As it stands, though, even Voyager and Enterprise spent more time avoiding and hiding from the Borg than trying to confront them head-on. Even in the case of severely weakened/isolated Borg, they survived only by luring their enemy into a trap and using a [tech] to trigger a solar flare, destroying it.

If I were to accept your reasoning, I would have to accept that most trek fans actually hated Descent-I and -II. Since I don't think that's the case, I don't think your assessment is correct.
 
By you, I'm sure. Those of us who were actually paying attention would remember that a single Borg Cube once chewed through a fleet of forty starships on its way to Earth; people who remember this would not expect a single starship lost in space on the ass-end of the galaxy would all by themselves discover how to defeat the Borg single handedly.

You'd think that, but it wasn't the case. Once the Borg were mentioned the audience was asking for a confrontation. And unless they figure out how to win or escape VOY was dead in 10 seconds. If they win, the Borg are decayed. If they escape, the Borg are incompetent for not destroying them.

Well, no, they (the writers) get derided for using technobabble to solve what should otherwise be a DRAMATIC problem, not a TECHNICAL one.

Technobabble is technobabble, it gets derided no matter when or how it's used.

Actually, I think the audience despised 8472 because they were silly looking and--unlike the Borg--DID appear to operate with a comprehensible objective of galactic conquest and genocidal mayhem. The Borg were still a sufficiently black box (pun intended) that you could make them out to be a pack of disorganized predatory juggernauts who were better off avoided than trying to take head-on. 8472 was dramatically unnecessary for the purpoes they served, in fact their appearance in the middle of Borg space made it all the worst since it both castrated what was an otherwise reputable badass race and lead to the creation of an alien-of-the-week species that nobody knew or cared about.

For the 8472, it's just double standard/show prejudice. If they had been a TNG or DS9 creation no one would have any problems with them or how they could fight the Borg. It's being a VOY creation that blackmarked them.

And after First Contact, the Borg were known to have a controlling mind over all Borg and that they weren't solitary predators. VOY needed a plot device to explain why the Borg didn't just destroy them and how they'd get through the core of Borg space, the answer being that the Borg were fighting someone stronger than them that kept them from destroying VOY.

What I'm suggesting has never been tried, at least not on Star Trek. OTOH, it was tried on Firefly, and managed to keep Babylon 5 afloat right up until the allies DID find a way to counter them (and then only by massive firepower and the collection of multiple allies from thousands of worlds, at which time the Shadows had evolved into a military force themselves). So, yes, it could have worked, had it been tried. It would have been at least superior to the Borg Queen's petty trifling and nonsensical "I could kill you now, but I think I'll let you go for some reason" comic book villainy.

Firefly and B5 worked because those guys were their own original creation, and not villains from another series being recast in a different role. That's the only reason. Also they had other enemies they could use as normal foes to fight. With VOY everytime they tried the aliens were hated so they had no normal enemies to fight while keeping the Borg as this occasional foe.

They didn't HAVE to at all. The entire premise of the show was that the Voyager crew was a lost vessel trying to get back to Earth; it's the one situation in all of Trek where trying to avoid them is dramatically justifiable in every case.

I dare say the "audience" would only expect a full-on confrontation if they were seriously deluded as to what Voyager was about, or if the series had painted a much weaker picture of what the Borg were than we had gotten in previous years. As it stands, though, even Voyager and Enterprise spent more time avoiding and hiding from the Borg than trying to confront them head-on. Even in the case of severely weakened/isolated Borg, they survived only by luring their enemy into a trap and using a [tech] to trigger a solar flare, destroying it.

If I were to accept your reasoning, I would have to accept that most trek fans actually hated Descent-I and -II. Since I don't think that's the case, I don't think your assessment is correct.

Most Trek fans DO hate the Descent story, but at least that story had the excuse of them being renegade Borg separate from the Collective.

VOY needed a central enemy, like BSG did with the Cylons, but unfortunately everytime they tried to create an original foe they could do whatever they wanted with, the audience hated them (and it wasn't even because they were bad aliens, the audience just had it out for VOY's creations) so they had to fall back on the one race VOY used that they DIDN'T hate. Even if it meant recasting them as regular villains.
 
FWIW, this member of the audience didn't hate the Vidiians, and doesn't believe most members of the audience did either.

The Kazon OTOH did strike me as a waste of time, though Seska's interactions with them helped. The Hirogen ultimately ended up feeling like wasted potential, and I never got to know the Malon very well.
 
VOY needed a central enemy, like BSG did with the Cylons, but unfortunately everytime they tried to create an original foe they could do whatever they wanted with, the audience hated them (and it wasn't even because they were bad aliens, the audience just had it out for VOY's creations) so they had to fall back on the one race VOY used that they DIDN'T hate. Even if it meant recasting them as regular villains.

The audience "had it in" for them? Did Voyager steal their girlfriends, or something?

Setting aside your VOY persecution complex: The Hirogen and the Vidians both had potential, and I recall everyone in the house I lived in at the time liked them upon the first introduction. They were ruined by poor execution in subsequent episodes.
 
The audience just gave VOY a harder time from the first episode onwards, don't know why.

As for the aliens, they hated the Vidiians for being space lepers and too disgusting, and hated the Hirogen for being Predators. Bottom line.
 
Who's they?

Seriously, where are you getting your claims that "they" hated the Vidiians and Hirogen? Because I see two posts to the contrary right above yours.

Citations would be pretty cool and bolster your argument.
 
I didn't bother remembering names, but I've seen posts around here claiming that the Hirogen are predator knock-offs. Other boards I've been to such as stardestroyer.net and RPG forums are where I found out how the Vidiians are hated as well.
 
By you, I'm sure. Those of us who were actually paying attention would remember that a single Borg Cube once chewed through a fleet of forty starships on its way to Earth; people who remember this would not expect a single starship lost in space on the ass-end of the galaxy would all by themselves discover how to defeat the Borg single handedly.

You'd think that, but it wasn't the case. Once the Borg were mentioned the audience was asking for a confrontation.
Speaking as a member of this proverbial audience you keep mentioning, this does not appear to be the case. Again, I'm sure YOU were asking for a confrontation, but I doubt that expectation is universal.

Besides, TV shows are written by writers, not by their audience's assumptions.

Technobabble is technobabble, it gets derided no matter when or how it's used.
Except when it's used properly (in which case it is barely noticed as technobabble).

For the 8472, it's just double standard/show prejudice. If they had been a TNG or DS9 creation no one would have any problems with them or how they could fight the Borg. It's being a VOY creation that blackmarked them.
Probably, though not just by association with VOY. Basically, it was entirely the wrong time and place to introduce a new species as a foil for the Borg. 8472 might have worked as a standalone adversary (in PLACE of the Borg, which Voyager would then never encounter for some reason) but not as an attempt to out-badass the ultimate badass.

And after First Contact, the Borg were known to have a controlling mind over all Borg and that they weren't solitary predators.
Right. Which is where the REAL problems started, as I stated earlier, since the introduction of the Borg Queen reduced what was an otherwise very interesting and very frightening threat race into a slightly dopier version of the Doctor Who's cybermen. As long as the Borg Queen was running the entire collective, the Borg were basically reduced to the innept zombie-like minions of Mrs. Skeletor.

The only meaningful fix would be to assume that different Borg ships operate different ways and that one just happened to be controlled by a Borg Queen; in that case, the ship that attacked in FC would be the same cube from BOBW, after the last substantial fragment of it spent years regenerating. Even if this couldn't be inserted into FC, Voyager writers could suggest as much with a handful of throwaway lines.

VOY needed a plot device to explain why the Borg didn't just destroy them and how they'd get through the core of Borg space, the answer being that the Borg were fighting someone stronger than them that kept them from destroying VOY.
A plot device would have been unnecessary. They could have (and should have) fallen back on some TNG conventions that stipulate the Borg would leave them alone until they identified the ship as "something they can consume." Then it's a game of cat and mouse trying to sneak through their territory without attracting attention and avoiding them whenever they do.

Of course, somebody at Paramount thought as you do and assumed the audience would have been somehow disappointed if Voyager didn't at least TRY to defeat the entire collective, so they dreamed up another random badass species strictly for the purpose of castrating the Borg.

It was a bad idea based on a false assumption that, in the end, didn't work.

Firefly and B5 worked because those guys were their own original creation, and not villains from another series being recast in a different role.
But the Borg had ALREADY been modified from their original incarnation by the nonsense that was the Borg Queen. If we're going to play it that fast and loose with the nature of the Borg, you could just as easily make them anything you want them to be; as silly or as serious as you desire. There was no need to try to make the Borg consistent with FC, or even to reduce the Borg to a more mundane superficially evil nemesis, except that the producers SERIOUSLY underestimated the sophistication of their viewers.

Most Trek fans DO hate the Descent story...
This is the part where I remind you to speak for yourself and not for most trek fans. I, for one, have never met a fan who didn't (hell, I know a number of non-fans who like Descent).

VOY needed a central enemy, like BSG did with the Cylons, but unfortunately everytime they tried to create an original foe they could do whatever they wanted with, the audience hated them
Actually, the audience simply hated what they DID with the Borg, which was talk them up to a force of incredible destructive power and then ever-so-slowly water down the Borg's destructiveness and persistence until they became, in the end, kind of lame.

Now that you mention BSG: recall that Galactica spent the entire first season running from the cylons, with the only "full on confrontation" being a hit-and-run attack on what was intentionally described as an isolated fuel refinery. The Cylons were never explicitly implied to be more powerful than the colonials, and yet the audience clearly understood the subtext that it was very risky to try to engage them in Galactica's situation.

The Borg, on the other hand, are described as tactically superior to Starfleet in every possible way. With the exception of yourself, I seriously doubt anyone who was watching Voyager by that point would have expected Janeway to try and take on the collective. Nor, really, would they have found it particularly suspicious for Voyager to outwit/outmaneuver/boobytrap one or two cubes by way of running for their lives. Mainly because, again, anyone who knows about Star Trek knows that the Borg are not someone with whom to fuck.

To dumb them down just to make a confrontation possible diminishes the entire series. If you need a race with which to have such a confrontation, you're better off picking someone like, say, the Kazon Nistrim, whose ships are large and numerous, but primitive enough that a single starship could probably fight them off. And wouldn't you know it: despite their similarity to the Klingons, most Voyager fans didn't particularly mind the Kazon storylines.
 
VOY's writing was affected by audience expectations, which is why they got rid of all their original aliens and kept bringing back the Borg (the audience hated all the new aliens and only wanted the older ones).

Give me an example of technobabble done right, all I've ever seen in my time here is how the Trek shows were all full of lousy technobabble.

It's just double standard with the 8472, if they were in DS9 keeping the Borg out of that show then no one would complain.

A plot device was necessary, because the later changes to the Borg required an explanation for them not just destroying VOY off the bat. You can't have a season premiere/finale be about the heroes just sneaking around and running away. You bring in the ultimate Trek villains then it's a letdown if they aren't featured as more than just an extended cameo.

The Borg were reduced due to the audience not accepting any of VOY's other antagonist races, and VOY in serious need of one by that point.

Descent is good in the first part, the second part is trash. We even have a vote on that in the TNG forum.

The Cylon/BSG thing was more dramatic in that the fleet was all that remained of their civilization and any damage taken was a permanent scar on the survivors. With VOY it was just one lost ship and if they died it wouldn't affect anything in a meaningful way.

All of VOY's races were despised, which is why none of them were brought back as the normal enemies VOY could fight and not have to rely on the Borg. I don't know WHY they were utterly hated since they were just as good as any other Trek races and the Dominion.

Anyways, VOY either could have NO antagonist, or fall back on the Borg to the point of Borg decay. It was one or the other.
 
VOY's writing was affected by audience expectations, which is why they got rid of all their original aliens and kept bringing back the Borg (the audience hated all the new aliens and only wanted the older ones).
You keep saying this. "The audience hated this, the audience hated that..." I was in the audience and I liked the Vidiians just fine. What I didn't like was Janeway wussing out every time they ran into them; THAT was a race where we (that is to say me, my family, my friends who were also fans at that point, numbering altogether around twenty people) were expecting a confrontation, because the Vidians had an altogether understandable motive and we knew they wouldn't go away unless you stood up to them.

It was totally another matter with the Borg, who we knew to be too bad ass to risk a confrontation. What turned alot of us OFF was the reduction of the "The Unstobable and Relentless Borg Collective" to "The Cybernetic Henchmen of that gloating bald chick."

Give me an example of technobabble done right,
I'll give you three off the top of my head from TOS

Balance of Terror (Spock): Nuclear device of some kind. Our phasers detonated it less than 100 meters way.

Obsession (Spock): Cross circuiting to -A... Cross circuiting to -B...

Elaan of Trotus (Scotty): Fluctuation, Captain... it's the shape of the crystals, I was afraid of that...

Here's a modern one from STXI
Spock: The Romulan ship has lowered some kind of high energy pulse device into the atmosphere. It's signal appears to be blocking our communications and transporter abilities.

all I've ever seen in my time here is how the Trek shows were all full of lousy technobabble.
Because alot of them WERE full of lousy technobabble. That's like reading a badly-edited book and noticing that it's full of really obvious typos.

Good technobabble, like good spelling, is something that is noticed only in deficiency.

A plot device was necessary, because the later changes to the Borg required an explanation for them not just destroying VOY off the bat. You can't have a season premiere/finale be about the heroes just sneaking around and running away.
I again refer you to Firefly and Battlestar Galactical, whose series premieres featured exactly this.

The Borg were reduced due to the audience not accepting any of VOY's other antagonist races...
At this point, with regard to "the audience" it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
You keep saying this. "The audience hated this, the audience hated that..." I was in the audience and I liked the Vidiians just fine. What I didn't like was Janeway wussing out every time they ran into them; THAT was a race where we (that is to say me, my family, my friends who were also fans at that point, numbering altogether around twenty people) were expecting a confrontation, because the Vidians had an altogether understandable motive and we knew they wouldn't go away unless you stood up to them.

I too was part of the audience and all the folks I know into Trek were already dissing the show 3 episodes in and complaining about all the alien races and how ugly/dumb they were, every last one of them. If they WERE well-liked then the writers would have increased their role in the show as antagonists, but they weren't and thus they didn't. Simple as that. The Borg brought in better ratings and thus they fell back on them.

It was totally another matter with the Borg, who we knew to be too bad ass to risk a confrontation. What turned alot of us OFF was the reduction of the "The Unstobable and Relentless Borg Collective" to "The Cybernetic Henchmen of that gloating bald chick."
Inevitable, especially since every alternative given to the Borg as an enemy was rejected.

I'll give you three off the top of my head from TOS

Balance of Terror (Spock): Nuclear device of some kind. Our phasers detonated it less than 100 meters way.
That's not technobabble.

Obsession (Spock): Cross circuiting to -A... Cross circuiting to -B...
That's still not technobabble

Elaan of Trotus (Scotty): Fluctuation, Captain... it's the shape of the crystals, I was afraid of that...
STILL not technobabble.

Here's a modern one from STXI
Spock: The Romulan ship has lowered some kind of high energy pulse device into the atmosphere. It's signal appears to be blocking our communications and transporter abilities.
That's still not technobabble, it's just a plot device to justify a skydiving scene.

Technobabble is like in BOBW: The Borg are weak against this phaser frequency, so we channel the phaser blast through the bigger deflector dish and increase the blast size.

I again refer you to Firefly and Battlestar Galactical, whose series premieres featured exactly this.
Borth shows had "running away" as a fundamental part of the premise: Galactica on the run from Cylons, Serenity on the run from the Alliance. VOY would have to have running away shoved in there as a changed premise and made them all seem like cowards unless they'd been running away from everything they encountered beforehand which just makes them BIGGER cowards.

At this point, with regard to "the audience" it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
With regards to the audience, I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about.
 
I too was part of the audience and all the folks I know into Trek were already dissing the show 3 episodes in and complaining about all the alien races and how ugly/dumb they were, every last one of them.
It appears you need new friends.

Inevitable, especially since every alternative given to the Borg as an enemy was rejected.
Speak for yourself. I thought the Vidiians were a pretty cool adversary, just terribly under-utilized.

That's not technobabble.
Yes it is. It's just GOOD technobabble, and therefore doesn't stand out as conspicuous.

Believe it or not, "technobabble" is not just a fancy word for "scientific gibberish we just made up because it sounds good."

That's still not technobabble, it's just a plot device to justify a skydiving scene.
That's what technobabble is: a plot device used to justify something.

Technobabble is like in BOBW: The Borg are weak against this phaser frequency, so we channel the phaser blast through the bigger deflector dish and increase the blast size.
To quote shelby:
"Rotate phaser frequencies. Random settings, keep them changing, don't give them time to adapt."

That's also good technobabble. It's only slightly more sophisticated than the other references I gave, but still technobabble.

I again refer you to Firefly and Battlestar Galactical, whose series premieres featured exactly this.
Borth shows had "running away" as a fundamental part of the premise[/quote]
As did Voyager (when it was in its element).
 
I think VOY also had to deal with the fact that the ship was constantly moving, and the Borg were perhaps the only race that had any huge chunk of territory in the DQ. I personally liked more than a few of the races, and felt some like the Kazon could have been improved and used more than we actually got. But I don't buy the notion that the only reason some of these races weren't as "regular" as the Borg appearance was due to the evil anti Voyager conspiracy.

That being said, I think we're deviating a bit from the original topic. This isn't about the perceived status of VOY vs other shows, but about the Borg as a species.
 
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