The Borg and Picard

[TRON JA307020]

So technically starfleet encountered the borg early because of Q but also because Captain Picard did not turn back when he had the chance. He ignored Guinans warning. Yeah they might still have encountered the borg on the way back but Picard also mocked Q and his arrogance angered Q so Q sent them to the borg. So all of this is Picards fault as much as Qs. Yet Picard is still hailed a hero. Not sure if I agree 100% with that.

 

[Racefuel]

There was an overconfidence in Starfleet, as that is the culture Picard came up in. I think it’s a bit much to blame Picard for the Borg. Clearly Q accelerated it, but I think the Borg Federation confrontation was inevitable

 

[Timofnine]

So technically starfleet encountered the borg early because of Q but also because Captain Picard did not turn back when he had the chance. He ignored Guinans warning. Yeah they might still have encountered the borg on the way back but Picard also mocked Q and his arrogance angered Q so Q sent them to the borg. So all of this is Picards fault as much as Qs. Yet Picard is still hailed a hero. Not sure if I agree 100% with that.

I thought that the 24th century Borg signal, sent from the 22nd century, broadcast by the survivors of the Borg’s temporal incursion in to the 21st century in the movie First Contact, as shown in the Enterprise episode Regeneration, gave away earths location?

 

[TRON JA307020]

I thought that the 24th century Borg signal, sent from the 22nd century, broadcast by the survivors of the Borg’s temporal incursion in to the 21st century in the movie First Contact, as shown in the Enterprise episode Regeneration, gave away earths location?

Maybe. The borg supposedly had been destroying starfleet and romulan outposts before Q but Picard still made them aware of starfleets technology and starships.

 

[The Old Mixer]

This thread is about stuff that happened in TNG, so I've moved it to that forum.

 

[TRON JA307020]

There was an overconfidence in Starfleet, as that is the culture Picard came up in. I think it’s a bit much to blame Picard for the Borg. Clearly Q accelerated it, but I think the Borg Federation confrontation was inevitable

True in picards time starfleet was much more complacent(as stated by picard) than I'm Archer or Kirk's time. Yeah the Borg would have come sooner or later but the Q situation sped it up. Starfleet has changed much since the early days of TNG. They are definitely more hardened.

 

[Citiprime]

I always wonder about the colony attacks in the season 1 finale "The Neutral Zone," where Federation and Romulan colonies on both sides of the Neutral Zone have been attacked. Nothing in the episode or in canon specifically states it was the Borg that perpetrated the attacks, or any identity given the attacker, but most people have went with the idea that it was the Borg who were responsible as a sort of initial raid of the Alpha Quadrant.

But it doesn't quite fit with the Borg to do hit and run attacks. I don't know, but it would seem more their style to stick and around and spread like a cancer, rather than to just gobble up a colony and run away.

 

[TRON JA307020]

This thread is about stuff that happened in TNG, so I've moved it to that forum.

Well this season of Picard is about the borg and starfleet has changed because of it. It's all linked and culminated in Picard.

 

[Qonundrum]

So technically starfleet encountered the borg early because of Q but also because Captain Picard did not turn back when he had the chance. He ignored Guinans warning. Yeah they might still have encountered the borg on the way back but Picard also mocked Q and his arrogance angered Q so Q sent them to the borg. So all of this is Picards fault as much as Qs. Yet Picard is still hailed a hero. Not sure if I agree 100% with that.

Prior to the ENT prequel, it was established that the Borg were already in Federation (and Romulan) territory, scooping up outposts like how we scoop what's in the kitty litter bucket. So they already had taken and figured out some Federation technology - the Enterprise being flung out by Q just hastened later events, though Q could be responsible for the Borg wanting Picard by name. Without Q, the Borg would have found some other human - but Picard was the first, as well as the commander of the Flagship, so it makes sense either way that he would be sought out.

I always wonder about the colony attacks in the season 1 finale "The Neutral Zone," where Federation and Romulan colonies on both sides of the Neutral Zone have been attacked. Nothing in the episode or in canon specifically states it was the Borg that perpetrated the attacks, or any identity given the attacker, but most people have went with the idea that it was the Borg who were responsible as a sort of initial raid of the Alpha Quadrant.

But it doesn't quite fit with the Borg to do hit and run attacks. I don't know, but it would seem more their style to stick and around and spread like a cancer, rather than to just gobble up a colony and run away.

Covert operations; even something as big a juggernaut as the Borg will still look up random bits and pieces surreptitiously to decide the best strategy in how to steamroller in. The fact that, in TBOBW, they send out one puny cube is telling*. The chance is low, but they don't want to reduce their numbly idly (or whenever at all possible) - unless it's the Borg queen in that one Voyager episode who's really that dumb to do so... the Borg exist to improve quality of life and their forces' strength (capability and quantity).

* to be fair, the fact that they have a time travel gizmo, which they use under the dumbest circumstances, with no tactical value or point, and only after sending ONE CUBE YET AGAIN**,*** yet they lose again. Why bother wasting drones when they could have used the time travel maguffin before the big battle and from farther away, if preventing First Contact Day is such a big thing - why not go back earlier in time, never mind bootstrap paradoxes and predestination nonsense since the moment humanity is wiped out then the galaxy would be a much different place and Borgoshakespeare would not exist to write about it, either... Also: The Borg have no honor - Worf told us so, so it must be true. But even then, the Borg are about perfection and improving the quality of life (TBOBW). Again, wasting drones has never made sense

** since "adapt" means "let's try sending two this time, instead of repeating the same failed tactics from before, and see if it works - one cube almost destroyed them all the first time and it's only by luck they figured out an unexpected weakness in time. And better yet, we intercepted a message that the dingdongs in charge are letting Picard waddle about in the Neutral Zone and we know where that is, uh-huh uh-huh. How'd they get to Earth so quickly like how TOS always had."

*** even VOY has the Queen telling Seven that they are sending x number of cubes to conquer one piddling species in one star system that doesn't seem too much more or less advanced and the Borg know the Federation is formidable despite already trying just the one... ugh!!

 

[at Quark's]

I wonder what would 've happened if Picard had heeded Guinan's warning to 'start back now'. I mean, he still was 7000 LY away from his original location and over 2.5 years away from the nearest Starbase. He might have been deep into Borg territory and not have been able to avoid them in the first place.

Even while the encounter was clearly to blame on Q, I also think the implied intent of TNG was that the Borg were already knocking on the UFP's door with those destroyed outposts in the Neutral Zone that had a similar pattern of destruction.

 

[Jellico]

I always wonder about the colony attacks in the season 1 finale "The Neutral Zone," where Federation and Romulan colonies on both sides of the Neutral Zone have been attacked. Nothing in the episode or in canon specifically states it was the Borg that perpetrated the attacks, or any identity given the attacker, but most people have went with the idea that it was the Borg who were responsible as a sort of initial raid of the Alpha Quadrant.

But it doesn't quite fit with the Borg to do hit and run attacks. I don't know, but it would seem more their style to stick and around and spread like a cancer, rather than to just gobble up a colony and run away.

I’m wondering if this late season one episode was intended to be about Borg attacks. That’s how it’s put together later, but I wonder if this incursion was left open for a different enemy encounter. I might be missing something. I’m not familiar with novels, if that’s where it was connected .

 

[somebuddyX]

I believe, and this could be wrong, is that "The Neutral Zone" and perhaps the season 2 opener would have been about the Federation and Romulans teaming up to fight the aliens who attacked the Neutral Zone outposts. Originally this was an insectoid race, but eventually it was changed to the Borg and "TNZ" was reworked to be standalone.
In-universe, and ignoring "Regeneration" for the moment, it was definitely the Borg that attacked the Neutral Zone and a cube probably went through the area, picking up colonies like a doctor takes a swab, and then moved on because the Feds were kind of irrelevant. Then the Enterprise turns up in J-25 suddenly and they take an interest and then when the Enterprise is saved by Q it probably puts them right in the Borg's crosshairs. Of course "Regeneration" brings in the homing signal but when the writers were writing between 1988 and 1990 that wasn't a consideration.
No matter the eventual outcome, the chain of events aren't Picard's fault. Starfleet is an organisation with a hierarchy, a chain of command, and people are expected to follow orders. Q wouldn't respect that. He's too much a wildcard. Of course Picard is going to turn him down and of course Picard is going to say he's prepared for what awaits them. No matter if he is or isn't I think all the captains would say something like they can't sit around and wait to be ready. They go out there with the best they have in the time they live and sometimes that's enough and sometimes it isn't. That's just my opinion.

 

[Search4]

So the Borg are snooping around and don’t see anything new or technologically interesting. Why assimilate unless you gain something?

Then the D appears, traveling 2000 light years in seconds, hmmm this is new! Let’s go investigate. Hey nothing in engineering that looks new - better go assimilate her and get the scoop. She has a new type of drive!

(Of course it was Q but how would the Borg know that)?

From the Borg’s perspective, the D uses the new tech drive to escape. They still don’t know how. Of COURSE they will investigate - this is perfectly reasonable - it takes a year or so to travel and hey here’s the D again let’s take this Picard fellow and learn what he knows.

Hmm no new drive, ok. We’re 90% of the way there, (and yes we got that nasty message) so let’s knock out earth and see what else might be valuable. 150 species must have something, right? One cube should do it.

Or so is my head canon.

 

[Oddish]

Picard did what a Starfleet captain was expected to do: explore and investigate. Maybe he shouldn't have, maybe he was overconfident, but this is still Q's fault, not his.

 

[Snowdrop82]

Picard did what a Starfleet captain was expected to do: explore and investigate. Maybe he shouldn't have, maybe he was overconfident, but this is still Q's fault, not his.

I think Q was helping them out. If the Borg attacked with no prior warning or knowledge, what would the outcome have been?

 

[Sketcher]

Q knocked away part of humanity's arrogance. That's all. Picard and crew thought they could handle anything because of how evolved and good-natured they were. They were wrong, and it cost lives of the Enterprise as well as countless others along the way, and leaving Picard mentally scarred for the rest of his life. But is humanity better for it? More humbled? Like Q said, if you can't take a little bloody nose then crawl back in bed.

 

[Shikarnov]

There was an overconfidence in Starfleet, as that is the culture Picard came up in. I think it’s a bit much to blame Picard for the Borg. Clearly Q accelerated it, but I think the Borg Federation confrontation was inevitable

That was, indeed, the culture. Interesting because that theme would fit in well today. Contemporary affairs are better kept in TNZ, but we're very much in a situation today that is seeing our own overconfidence challenged. "I wonder if the Emperor Honorious, watching the Visigoths coming over the seventh hill, could truly realize that the Roman Empire was about to fall."

I always wonder about the colony attacks in the season 1 finale "The Neutral Zone," where Federation and Romulan colonies on both sides of the Neutral Zone have been attacked. Nothing in the episode or in canon specifically states it was the Borg that perpetrated the attacks, or any identity given the attacker, but most people have went with the idea that it was the Borg who were responsible as a sort of initial raid of the Alpha Quadrant.

But it doesn't quite fit with the Borg to do hit and run attacks. I don't know, but it would seem more their style to stick and around and spread like a cancer, rather than to just gobble up a colony and run away.

I never saw the attacks as hit and run, so much as the Borg's version of exploration. Cube is mapping along a predetermined path -- Oh, what's this? Scoop. Oh, and here's another one. Cool. And then, because they behave (at least in that time) very methodically, kept on going on along their course undeterred.

It also fits with the timeline. The Neutral Zone to BOBW was two years, with Q-Who in the middle. Cube Alpha leaves TNZ and keeps on mapping for a year. Cube Beta encounters the Enterprise in J25 and radios its encounter to base. New instructions are issued for Alpha to turn around and double back to find out what they overlooked.

So the Borg are snooping around and don’t see anything new or technologically interesting. Why assimilate unless you gain something?

Then the D appears, traveling 2000 light years in seconds, hmmm this is new! Let’s go investigate. Hey nothing in engineering that looks new - better go assimilate her and get the scoop. She has a new type of drive!

(Of course it was Q but how would the Borg know that)?

From the Borg’s perspective, the D uses the new tech drive to escape. They still don’t know how. Of COURSE they will investigate - this is perfectly reasonable - it takes a year or so to travel and hey here’s the D again let’s take this Picard fellow and learn what he knows.

Hmm no new drive, ok. We’re 90% of the way there, (and yes we got that nasty message) so let’s knock out earth and see what else might be valuable. 150 species must have something, right? One cube should do it.

Or so is my head canon.

That's my new head canon too. I love it.

** since "adapt" means "let's try sending two this time, instead of repeating the same failed tactics from before

If we assume the destroyed cube was in communication, then the Borg might have taken time to analyze what happened.

On the one hand, we have assimilated individuals that indicate no magic dangers, a wrecked fleet of impotent resistance that also indicates no magic dangers, etc... And on the other hand, we have an undamaged cube that ceased contact right before it was about to win and was never heard from again. I can imagine the Borg collectively thinking "What sorcery is this?!"

Had the Borg been aware that the first cube was destroyed in a close battle, then increasing the amount of force would have been a logical adaptation.

But instead, the cube went to sleep and contact was lost, so they don't know how that happened. They don't know if the cube is intact but offline, if it was taken over by humans, if the drones are all independent hippies, if the ship was scuttled, or anything else. Given that uncertainty, it would be reasonable for the Borg to take some time (possibly years) to analyze the data instead of simply sending two cubes to disappear like the first.

 

[Ragitsu]

Victim blaming.

 

[Doug Smith]

Victim blaming.

Q rubbed Picard's nose in his own arrogance.