The Borg, a defence
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In A Vision of the Future: The Making of Star Trek: Voyager, writers Jeri Taylor and Michael Piller describe that part of the inspiration for the Kazon was the conflict between the Crip and Bloods gangs in Los Angeles that had been receiving more attention in the early 90s when VOY was being conceived. This led to the idea of the Kazon as a species divided between different "sects" instead of being unified, as most ST species are.
I don't think it's fair to say that they are therefore based upon African-Americans in general, though; I think it's most fair to simply note that the political divisions between Kazon are inspired by intra-street gang conflicts.
The Borg Collective shows no signs of individuals having an emotional need for a fatherland. Planets are irrelevant to a space faring parasitic race. Society is based on Cubes with the datalinks to the queens and the greater Collective.
Voyager spent many a year traveling through Borg Central and many civilizations coexisted in the mist of Borg. The Borg are parasites, Only when confronted with a species strong enough to take them out, like species 8472 do they go to war. Otherwise they selectively assimilate and let the society go about growing so that in the future the Borg can grow by assimilating the advancements of the host civilizations.The Kazon may not be assimilated but they aren't being killed. The way the Kazon were written, this seems very generous of the Borg, doesn't it?Also, given the confusion between assmilation and death, it is by no means clear that anyone is killed by the Borg other than in combat. There is no reason to think that combat deaths of civilians are a problem for any other posters here. Certainly, the vehement desire of the majority to exterminate all the Commies, er, Borg, shows no distinction between combatants and civilians in the Collective.
The Picard version may be all horror show but it makes no sense for a computer program to go to the trouble of suppressing organic minds to use the bodies. Robots would be much more sensible. The sentimental attachment to such nonsense is puzzling.
The Voyager episode Child's Play was directly inspired by the Elian Gonzalez case, with the Borg playing the role of Cuba. The episode cleverly condemned the mother for risking the boy's life yet still saving him from the evil Fidelistas, and fictionally kicking their asses for good measure. Oh, yes, the Collective was indeed usually a symbol of Communism. Beating the Cold War drums was one of the ways Berman Trek really was stick in the mud trash. But no one here complains about that.
Given the known intention for the Kazon to represent Bloods and Crips, i.e., Blacks, the wisecrack about not assimilating the Kazon had distinctly unpleasant overtones.
Negatory.
In "Scorpion, Part I," it was firmly established that there is a vast region of the Delta Quadrant that the Borg control, and which contains only Borg ships, stations, and Borg-assimilated planets. There were no other civilizations surviving in Borg space. In "The Gift," Kes's parting gift to the Voyager crew was to catapult them 9,500 light-years from their location at the edge of Borg space, safely past the Borg.
Voyager spent its remaining years periodically encountering Borg ships and stations located beyond Borg space, but it was never again anywhere near what we would call "Borg territory."
Not exactly. The episode "Child's Play" established that the Borg did adopt that strategy towards Icheb's people, but numerous other episodes, including "The Best of Both Worlds," "Dark Frontier," and "Hope and Fear," make it clear that the Borg more typically will assimilate an entire civilization and destroy anything and anyone from that civilization it does not assimilate. Genocide is routine.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
You wound me, sir. But, sadly, you're right.
Actually, it was the other guys: I seem to recall Mr. Braga saying they regarded the Borg as "Voyager's version of the Klingons." I also seem to recall shaking my head in disgust at the time.
I was watching the intro episodes for several of them, and it wasn't the conception that was bad. The Kazon were alright for a race of Mad Max warriors in space types, the Vidiians had a great intro, the Krenim, Vaadwaur, etc. Since it wasn't the writing, we have to fall back on negative fan reaction to them as the reasoning for their dismissal (I remember back when VOY first started how the fan community was reluctant to the idea of new aliens, they wanted the old ones).
It was still the writing. A one-sentence outline of the Kazon doesn't sound too bad. And a one-sentence outline of the Hirogen is a one-sentence outline of the Predators, but the Predators were cool. But at least as far as I can remember the Kazon were never in any decent stories and never had any standout characters.
Let's take the Vorta. The Vorta weren't cool because a one-sentence conceptualization of the Vorta was automatically compelling--it's essentially the same as the concept of the Cylons and the Cylons eventually became very uncool. The Vorta were cool because every Vorta we saw was cool. Eris was cool. Kilana was cool. Keevan was really cool. Yelgrun was Iggy Pop, who is pretty cool. And Weyoun was as cool as a Star Trek character gets (which may or may not be that cool, but let's pretend we're not huge nerds and assume it's very cool
). So the Vorta were cool.
Is there a Kazon character I missed that did for their species what Weyoun and Keevan did for the Vorta, or Dukat and Garak did for the Cardassians, Mark Lenard and Joanne Linville did for the Romulans, or Kor and Worf and Kruge and Chang did for the Klingons?
Voyager didn't even make their humans cool--why should their aliens be any different?
Let's take the Vorta. The Vorta weren't cool because a one-sentence conceptualization of the Vorta was automatically compelling--it's essentially the same as the concept of the Cylons and the Cylons eventually became very uncool. The Vorta were cool because every Vorta we saw was cool. Eris was cool. Kilana was cool. Keevan was really cool. Yelgrun was Iggy Pop, who is pretty cool. And Weyoun was as cool as a Star Trek character gets (which may or may not be that cool, but let's pretend we're not huge nerds and assume it's very cool
). So the Vorta were cool.Is there a Kazon character I missed that did for their species what Weyoun and Keevan did for the Vorta, or Dukat and Garak did for the Cardassians, Mark Lenard and Joanne Linville did for the Romulans, or Kor and Worf and Kruge and Chang did for the Klingons?
Voyager didn't even make their humans cool--why should their aliens be any different?
Generally speaking no. But hair styles change with times. I remember when I left for the army my little brother used to tell me how the Jamaicans were moving in and the sleepy mini-conflicts of Crips and Bloods over PCP got ramped up to the crack cocaine conflicts as they became "super gangs", (I saw that headline in some magazine cover story) during the 80s. The first outward sign of a Jamaican in an African American neighborhood are his dreads.What a load of dreadlocks!
I mean, bollocks!
dreadlocks? do gangmembers wear dreadlocks..
It was still the writing. A one-sentence outline of the Kazon doesn't sound too bad. And a one-sentence outline of the Hirogen is a one-sentence outline of the Predators, but the Predators were cool. But at least as far as I can remember the Kazon were never in any decent stories and never had any standout characters.
Let's take the Vorta. The Vorta weren't cool because a one-sentence conceptualization of the Vorta was automatically compelling--it's essentially the same as the concept of the Cylons and the Cylons eventually became very uncool. The Vorta were cool because every Vorta we saw was cool. Eris was cool. Kilana was cool. Keevan was really cool. Yelgrun was Iggy Pop, who is pretty cool. And Weyoun was as cool as a Star Trek character gets (which may or may not be that cool, but let's pretend we're not huge nerds and assume it's very cool
Is there a Kazon character I missed that did for their species what Weyoun and Keevan did for the Vorta, or Dukat and Garak did for the Cardassians, Mark Lenard and Joanne Linville did for the Romulans, or Kor and Worf and Kruge and Chang did for the Klingons?
Voyager didn't even make their humans cool--why should their aliens be any different?
It's the unfair double standard DS9 gets for EVERYTHING compared to all other Trek shows. I mean seriously, if the Kazon had been a GQ race in DS9 and EVERYTHING about them was the same no one would complain about them. And even if VOY did have recurring Kazon characters, people would still hate them.
It was still the writing. A one-sentence outline of the Kazon doesn't sound too bad. And a one-sentence outline of the Hirogen is a one-sentence outline of the Predators, but the Predators were cool. But at least as far as I can remember the Kazon were never in any decent stories and never had any standout characters.
Let's take the Vorta. The Vorta weren't cool because a one-sentence conceptualization of the Vorta was automatically compelling--it's essentially the same as the concept of the Cylons and the Cylons eventually became very uncool. The Vorta were cool because every Vorta we saw was cool. Eris was cool. Kilana was cool. Keevan was really cool. Yelgrun was Iggy Pop, who is pretty cool. And Weyoun was as cool as a Star Trek character gets (which may or may not be that cool, but let's pretend we're not huge nerds and assume it's very cool
Is there a Kazon character I missed that did for their species what Weyoun and Keevan did for the Vorta, or Dukat and Garak did for the Cardassians, Mark Lenard and Joanne Linville did for the Romulans, or Kor and Worf and Kruge and Chang did for the Klingons?
Voyager didn't even make their humans cool--why should their aliens be any different?
It's the unfair double standard DS9 gets for EVERYTHING compared to all other Trek shows. I mean seriously, if the Kazon had been a GQ race in DS9 and EVERYTHING about them was the same no one would complain about them. And even if VOY did have recurring Kazon characters, people would still hate them.
I disagree, simply because no average Trekkie can name another non-Dominion GQ race off the top of their heads, despite the first few seasons showing us quite a number of them.
But yeah, I agree with Myasischev's assessment. It's not the races, it's the individual characters that make the races memorable. It was true in TOS, TNG, and DS9 and it's true today. It's quite telling that nobody really touched the Andorians for 40 years; ENT brings us Shran and then BAM! Andorians are in demand again.
Oh, how I wished the Hirogen was just one hunter hellbent on taking down Voyager on a recurring villain basis. How resourceful and powerful he must be if he were the equal of 150 Starfleet crew on a highly advanced ship? Talk about personality!
I think the Borg were more memorable and most interesting when their weren't any characters, just endless drones. "Q Who" when they just keep coming and Picard can't do anything to stop them IMO is a much more interesting Borg episode than stuff like Unimatrix. So faceless enemies can be memorable.
It was still the writing. A one-sentence outline of the Kazon doesn't sound too bad. And a one-sentence outline of the Hirogen is a one-sentence outline of the Predators, but the Predators were cool. But at least as far as I can remember the Kazon were never in any decent stories and never had any standout characters.
Let's take the Vorta. The Vorta weren't cool because a one-sentence conceptualization of the Vorta was automatically compelling--it's essentially the same as the concept of the Cylons and the Cylons eventually became very uncool. The Vorta were cool because every Vorta we saw was cool. Eris was cool. Kilana was cool. Keevan was really cool. Yelgrun was Iggy Pop, who is pretty cool. And Weyoun was as cool as a Star Trek character gets (which may or may not be that cool, but let's pretend we're not huge nerds and assume it's very cool
Is there a Kazon character I missed that did for their species what Weyoun and Keevan did for the Vorta, or Dukat and Garak did for the Cardassians, Mark Lenard and Joanne Linville did for the Romulans, or Kor and Worf and Kruge and Chang did for the Klingons?
Voyager didn't even make their humans cool--why should their aliens be any different?
It's the unfair double standard DS9 gets for EVERYTHING compared to all other Trek shows. I mean seriously, if the Kazon had been a GQ race in DS9 and EVERYTHING about them was the same no one would complain about them. And even if VOY did have recurring Kazon characters, people would still hate them.
I disagree, simply because no average Trekkie can name another non-Dominion GQ race off the top of their heads, despite the first few seasons showing us quite a number of them.
But yeah, I agree with Myasischev's assessment. It's not the races, it's the individual characters that make the races memorable. It was true in TOS, TNG, and DS9 and it's true today. It's quite telling that nobody really touched the Andorians for 40 years; ENT brings us Shran and then BAM! Andorians are in demand again.
I have to agree. The VGR villains don't get negatively compared to the DS9 ones because people are so fond of DS9, they're compared to DS9 simply because they're better. And Myasishchev also provided some good examples of Romulans and Klingons who made their respective races cool. (Yet neglected to mention Vreenak.
)That would have been pretty awesome. Ron Perlman, anyone?
