The Book Of Boba Fett

[TREK_GOD_1]

I'm not entirely sure there's much else to explore about his past. He was a janitor on Starkiller Base. Ok?

It is clear you do not know the history of casting black people in demeaning stereotyped roles of that kind (bumbling janitors / butlers, chauffeurs, etc.) throughout the entire history of film, and why this treatment of the Finn character was criticized by innumerable black audience members. There was no justified reason to have the one black lead be a janitor, which further reduced Finn to comedy relief, when the story of a Stormtrooper breaking free and reclaiming his once-lost identity would have been a superior plot and believable, personal motive for Finn to fight the First Order.

It's not up to YouTubers to say what a story "should" have been about. You either like the story or you don't.

By your criteria, one can say its not up to you to tell others that they do not have a right to an opinion about anything. The ST is not above criticism, especially deserved criticism.

Poe was almost entirely sidelined in TROS, but I don't hear Oscar Isaac complaining

Posted like someone utterly ignorant of the position and mistreatment black actors have faced in the entertainment industry. Isaac will never face the hurdles Boyega will in his career, not only with Western audiences, but in foreign markets still hostile the image and idea of black actors (which Boyega pointed out in the marketing of the ST). There's no denying that.

Han barely had anything to do in Return of the Jedi but you never hear that mentioned. And the OT had a tiny fraction of the characters the ST does.

Solo was a principal character who was the motivation for the first act of the entire film. He was also completing his romance arc with Leia. To even compare the handling of Solo in ROTJ to Finn in the entire ST is either being obtuse or deliberately dismissive of the sociopolitical issues Boyega and others clearly witnessed with the Finn matter.

The YouTube video created a far better, more authentic-feeling Star Wars story than the "creatives" behind the Sequel Trilogy.

 

[lightspeedbear]

There was no justified reason to have the one black lead be a janitor, which further reduced Finn to comedy relief, when the story of a Stormtrooper breaking free and reclaiming his once-lost identity would have been a superior plot and believable, personal motive for Finn to fight the First Order.

Hardly comic relief, especially considering, you know, the first we saw of him was on a critical mission in service to Kylo Ren. The 'janitor' aspect amounted to literally 3 seconds of screen-time, and was done to show that in reality he might have been over-selling his talents in taking down the base's shields.

By your criteria, one can say its not up to you to tell others that they do not have a right to an opinion about anything. The ST is not above criticism, especially deserved criticism.

I've no idea how you came to that strange conclusion. Of course you can have an opinion on something, but phrasing it as "the story should have been this thing that I/some YouTuber came up with", raised an eyebrow, that's all. The film-makers, the people in charge, wanted to tell a different story. You might have wanted it to go in a different story, but that doesn't mean it "should" have happened your way. I prefer to engage with the story that's actually been told.

Posted like someone utterly ignorant of the position and mistreatment black actors have faced in the entertainment industry

I'm fully aware of the mistreatment of black actors in the past, but I don't think it's solved by giving Finn special treatment over another lead.

Solo was a principal character who was the motivation for the first act of the entire film.

Yet did almost nothing for the rest of the film. Finn meanwhile took down the First Order flagship (with help from another black actor).

The YouTube video created a far better, more authentic-feeling Star Wars story than the "creatives" behind the Sequel Trilogy.

In your opinion. I disagree. That's the beauty of this art form.

 

[Saul]

What a waste of a great character for him to have stayed dead half an hour into TFA.

Yep, that's what they thought too. But over 3 movies he was pretty wasted.

 

[Reverend]

I think some people here are confusing and conflating "janitor" with "soldier assigned to sanitation duty". As anyone that's spent any time around any kind of military will tell you, the later is exactly the kind of assignment low ranking personnel get put on *all the time*. I mean do you think everyone just sits around on base polishing their boots the whole time? No, people get assigned duties, with the really shite jobs unsurprisingly reserved for the youngest and least experienced. Finn said Jakku was his first mission, which means he's just a shiny, so of course his time at the super secret First Order installation was spent doing menial work. I mean they're not going to entrust him with anything important, are they?

That said, given the way TFA shook out, I suspect pretty much the entire third act was made up pretty much on the fly; hence Starkiller Base just magically appearing have way through the movie with zero introduction. As such, just as Poe surviving was a late addition I wouldn't be surprised if Finn's "expertise" was also just chucked in there at the last minute without much thought (which is fairly typical of JJ) so it's hardly an integral part of his character.

There are many missed opportunities, oversights and poorly thought out decisions in the ST. Among them, Finn having once had to use a mop ranks fairly low in terms of significance.

 

[fireproof78]

Honeslty, Poe's survival is a worse choice than sanitation duty. But, then, I always think of latrine duty from "No Time For Sergeants" when I think of such jobs in the military.

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But, as it stands, I do think that Poe staying dead would have allowed Finn more opportunity for character growth, and him forging in to his own person outside of just anger at the First Order. Still my favorite character from the ST.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah, Poe was originally written to die in the TIE crash, but but Oscar Issac was hesitant after he learned about that, as so many of his previous characters also died, so they wrote him into the rest of the movie.

https://www.esquire.com/uk/culture/film/a18451/oscar-isaac-interview/
https://www.gq.com/story/star-wars-the-force-awakens-character-death

 

[Reverend]

Honestly, I don't think Finn's arc was unsalvageable with or without Poe, even given the sub-optimal circumstances of TFA and his rather muddled story in TLJ. TRoS had the opportunity to really round out and mature his character, but utterly blew it.

JJ has a terrible history when it comes to arcs. All he seems to want to do is tantalise the audience with things that seem cool at the time. Anytime he gets to the point where some kind of pay-off is in order...he just shoves in something new in the hopes the audience will be suitably distracted until the next time. Consider for a second how many *new* major characters were introduced in TRoS; General Pryde, ZoriI Bliss, Jannah, and D-O (& an honourable mention for Babu Frik). Compare that to RotJ & RotS and they can barely manage two or three between them!
Now don't get me wrong; I actually *like* most of these characters; But it's the third act of a trilogy, and this is when you're supposed to be bringing threads to a conclusion, not starting whole new ones (that also inevitably go nowhere because there isn't time!)

All of that collectively pulled away from both Poe and Finn who could have both had decent conclusions to their arcs, but didn't because JJ apparently didn't know what to do with them.

 

[lightspeedbear]

Honestly, I don't think Finn's arc was unsalvageable with or without Poe, even given the sub-optimal circumstances of TFA and his rather muddled story in TLJ. TRoS had the opportunity to really round out and mature his character, but utterly blew it.

JJ has a terrible history when it comes to arcs. All he seems to want to do is tantalise the audience with things that seem cool at the time. Anytime he gets to the point where some kind of pay-off is in order...he just shoves in something new in the hopes the audience will be suitably distracted until the next time. Consider for a second how many *new* major characters were introduced in TRoS; General Pryde, ZoriI Bliss, Jannah, and D-O (& an honourable mention for Babu Frik). Compare that to RotJ & RotS and they can barely manage two or three between them!
Now don't get me wrong; I actually *like* most of these characters; But it's the third act of a trilogy, and this is when you're supposed to be bringing threads to a conclusion, not starting whole new ones (that also inevitably go nowhere because there isn't time!)

All of that collectively pulled away from both Poe and Finn who could have both had decent conclusions to their arcs, but didn't because JJ apparently didn't know what to do with them.

There were far, far too many characters in TROS, that's beyond question. As well as the new guys you mention there's also Palpatine, and the Knights of Ren, and Lando, then bringing back characters like Snap and introducing Dominic Monaghan (who had a bigger role apparently but it was cut, along with Carrie Fisher's daughter and Rose I believe). I've no idea what JJ was thinking. No wonder none of the characters felt as fleshed out as they could have been. Like you say it's a shame because I really liked most of the new guys, Zorri, Janah and D-O...

Oh and then consider just how many major locations the film visited: Ajan Kloss, Pasaana, Kijimi, Ren's Star Detroyer, Kef Bir, Exegol, the iceberg base at the start, a stop off at Ach-To etc etc, it was all just too much. I like TROS well enough but the biggest problem of the film is just how convoluted it was. Too much story, too many characters, too many locations. Finn's scene with Jannah and Poe's with Zorri's on the rooftop stood out like a sore thumb because it was two of the rare moments the film slowed down a bit.

 

[Reverend]

As well as the new guys you mention there's also Palpatine, and the Knights of Ren, and Lando, then bringing back characters like Snap and introducing Dominic Monaghan (who had a bigger role apparently but it was cut, along with Carrie Fisher's daughter and Rose I believe).

Well there was a reason I specified "major" characters because most of those were really little more than extras and bit-parts. Snap is just a poor man's Wedge (even less so since that actor always shows up in JJ's stuff and was absent in TLJ.) Dominic Monaghan's character (who's name I can't remember and don't care enough to look up) only stands out because it's Dominic Monaghan. They could have given those lines to literally anyone and nothing would have changed.
And as for the Knights of Ren...those weren't characters anymore than Jabba's guards or ESB's bounty hunter line-up was. Just glorified set dressing.
Basically, if we're counting this lot then we also have to count the likes of EV-9D9, Cody, and literally every named Ewok other than Wicket. Unlike the likes of D-O, Jannah and Zorri, they're just there as part of the main plot, they're not trying to have personal stories all on their own.

As for Palpatine & Lando; while I abhor the entire Palpatine plot (which also *could* have been done well, but wasn't!) their appearance does not strictly speaking count introducing new characters. Also, Lando specifically is mostly there to fill in the gaps they couldn't with what little they had of Carrie's footage to work with.

I've no idea what JJ was thinking.

I think it can be generally summed up as "short attention span". Like that kid who plays with his toys once, then shoves them in the closet and immediately forgets about them while pestering the parents to get them the next new thing...

 

[lightspeedbear]

their appearance does not strictly speaking count introducing new characters

Ok. Regardless of the semantics of the discussion, I think we can both agree, there were far too many characters to get through in the whole film. There already were in TLJ (to an extent), and to layer so many extra ones in TROS was needless. Short attention sums up JJ pretty well from what I've seen of him. Does seem to solidify his "good at setting things up, less so at developing or concluding them" trait.

 

[fireproof78]

As much as I like TROS (yes, including Palpatine's reveal) it spent too much time setting up all these cool pieces and didn't explore a lot of themes and characters that would have been really interesting. Poe having a dark past would have been fascinating, especially to tie in to the novels with Leia. Finn being a former stormtrooper but betraying the First Order could have led to him being a monumental leader, even more capable than Poe.

Like I said, TROS is a fun film but it lacked that third trilogy pull together. Something I've seen a lot of in thirds of trilogies in the last decades, sadly.

 

[Reverend]

Personally I find it impossible to take TRoS strictly on it's own merits they way I can with TFA or TLJ precisely because it's meant to be a concluding part of not just the ST, but the Skywalker saga as a whole (so far.) On both of those counts, it utterly fails. It doesn't matter if there are bits in it I enjoy (because there are!) or if I like some of the new characters (I do!) but the whole thing just feels overshowed by an overwhelming sense of disappointment, squandered potential, and easily the most shallow storytelling of any Star Wars movie. It's even to the extent that it retroactively makes the two previous movies less enjoyable for me too. Even at their worst, at least the Prequel were trying to be different and be about something.

Maybe in five or ten years I'll feel differently about the whole thing, but as of right now I'd much rather re-watch 'Rogue One' or 'Solo' than any of the ST movies. They just feel much more like Star Wars to me, and are way more fun to watch as a whole.

 

[fireproof78]

I could take TROS on its own, but TFA and TLJ are easier to do so with. TFA and TLJ both feel very much like ANH in the sense that the world feels very open to the next adventure. TROS is far less so, and that definitely makes it less enjoyable overall. Of the more recent films, Solo is probably my favorite one to rewatch because it is just an adventure film. It has no real baggage behind it, unlike TROS which does, sadly, highlight some of the missed opportunities in the ST.

But, I will still rate the ST above the PT because the PT has even more baggage for me that makes it rather unenjoyable, aside from very pretty look at.

 

[Reverend]

It's subjective of course, but the way I look at it; at least I can respect what the prequel trilogy was going for. Yes the end result was flawed up one side and down the other, but Lucas at least wasn't interested in just playing it safe and rehashing what he'd already done. I'll always have more appreciation for a piece of art more if it swung for the fences and missed, than one that aimed low...and somehow managed to miss anyway.

 

[fireproof78]

It's subjective of course, but the way I look at it; at least I can respect what the prequel trilogy was going for. Yes the end result was flawed up one side and down the other, but Lucas at least wasn't interested in just playing it safe and rehashing what he'd already done. I'll always have more appreciation for a piece of art more if it swung for the fences and missed, than one that aimed low...and somehow managed to miss anyway.

I have a deep and profound respect for Lucas and what he was trying to do. I cannot stand to revisit the PT. I can watch BTS, making of, listen to commentaries, and enjoy analysis of the PT. The films themselves are nearly painful because I struggle with the characters.

 

[lightspeedbear]

The Phantom Menace I can just about revisit and enjoy, but even as a huge SW geek, I just can't sit through Ep 2 or (especially) Ep 3 again. The acting, script, characters, overuse of CG, pacing, cinematography are just terrible. Which, in my opinion, are all things the ST nail.

Storyline however, it's the opposite, the PT offers something, the ST doesn't really, much as I love it. I mean it does in terms of personal stories, but on a grand galaxy wide scale, not really.

 

[Reverend]

How about we look at it this way for the sake of argument: no PT = no Clone Wars, no Rebels, no Mandalorian, and no seeming rebirth of Lucasfilm's sense of technical innovation and storytelling.

The more I think about it, the more I feel like THAT is the true lineage of Star Wars (i.e. stories people actually wanted to tell) and the ST is more of a Disney corporate dictate thing.

 

[lightspeedbear]

What does the PT have to do with Rebels or Mandalorian though? If anything, Mando is fleshing out the ST era and Rebels trades heavily on the OT.

You could in fact look at it like the PT pretty much killed Star Wars (TCW apart), whereas the ST has birthed what is arguably the greatest time to be a Star Wars fan.

Personally speaking, I've been a fan since the originals, and have loved almost everything "Disney" has put out. Mando: amazing, Rebels: I adore that show, Solo: likewise, Rogue One: love it, The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, love them, Bad Batch, awesome season 1 with tons of potential..

 

[fireproof78]

How about we look at it this way for the sake of argument: no PT = no Clone Wars, no Rebels, no Mandalorian, and no seeming rebirth of Lucasfilm's sense of technical innovation and storytelling.

Other than the technical exploration I'm ok with no Clone Wars, no Rebels, or Mandalorian.

 

[UssGlenn]

In news tangentially related to the "Slave 1" issue, on the new "Dug Days" show on Disney plus, staring Carl and Dug the dog from UP, Dug no longer calls Carl "Master" he decides to start calling him "Pa Pa" in the first episode.