The Biology of Vorta

[Isadorabelle]

(I'm not certain if this is exactly the right place, but it seemed to be the better choice over TrekTech)

So, I just finished the Millennium series by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. For those of you not familiar with it, it is a DS9 3 book series (Though in my case, only one large volume) that involves Bajor, time travel and the Prophets. I won't say any more than that to hopefully avoid spoilers.

That being said, I don't think the below has too much spoilage potential beyond a single page or so.

It did raise a question for me that I thought I'd pose to the members of this board. Are Vorta sexual? This was indicated in the book that Weyoun had, at one point, been in a relationship with Kilana.

I'm not speaking of attraction as there is a difference between being attracted to someone and having the desire to satisfy biological needs. But, is there the actual need or desire to be intimate, in some form, with someone else?

After giving this some consideration, I still am not sure. And, honestly, I can say that I'd like to believe they do. But, I'm not sure how far the Founders knowledge of genetics can take them (like Keevan and the defective Weyoun, his number specifically escapes me) in biology and personality.

Any thoughts?

 

[The_Baroness]

I'd say no. Their a cloned race, and I'd be very surprised if the founders would allow them to procreate in any way that can't be controlled by the changelings.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I don't know. I thought they might be able to have sex but be sterile? I always liked that spoiler in the book but sadly it's not considered cannon.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

This was indicated in the book that Weyoun had, at one point, been in a relationship with Kilana.

Blech. De-canonize that right now.

The Vorta and Jems started out as natural species that were heavily engineered (by who, I'm not sure - the Founders don't seem like scientist types) for the sole purpose of serving the Founders. It stands to reason that everything that doesn't serve that goal must be stripped out of them, including the sex drive or ability to reproduce (which would threaten the Dominion monopoly on creating Vortas and Jems through cloning).

There are no physically female Jems because they are presumably weaker and not as useful as soldiers. No such constraints apply to the Vorta, so both male and female clone types were created. But genders mean nothing to the Founders. It was the same as if they kept Vortas around with both blue and brown eyes.

I don't know. I thought they might be able to have sex but be sterile? I always liked that spoiler in the book but sadly it's not considered cannon.

What, do they have a baby? That sounds like fanfic.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

What, do they have a baby? That sounds like fanfic.

LOL, in the book? No, the reference in the book was very fleeting, barely took up a page.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

There was a thread on Vorta gender a while back, and I've found some of the posts I made there, which sort of sum up my take on it:

We know at least some of the modern Vorta are clones, of course. I like to assume, though, that only some of them are rewarded with this "immortality" - those who prove the most successful, perhaps? And then there was still an original being who was, I assume, born more or less normally. So it may be that Vorta still breed relatively normally most of the time, with males and females coming together, yadda, yadda, yadda. There would be the obvious oversight of the Founders meddling in their genetics, of course- they wouldn't be unsupervised, and I guess the embryo might well be "made" in a lab rather than left to develop in the womb naturally. So the "coming together" part might well be inaccurate. And right there we have the need for courtship, family ties, etc, removed. It's probably all very clinical - orderly. It's often noted that Vorta have never shown any interest in families or sex, etc, on screen, so it may be that they had much of their reproductive drive "removed". If so, we might want to discount that one reference (one of the few things in the wonderful "Millennium" I didn't like- fortunately, as you say, it's a very brief reference).

Breeding might well be just a job to them, performed with clinical disattachment - donate some DNA, grow some new Vorta. You probably don't even need to meet the mate.

That said, the Founders seem to be very isolationist- they rule by proxy, keeping themselves to themselves on their own planet. They have no interest in overseeing conquered aliens, only in reassuring themselves that those aliens are under the control of the Dominion's order- and thus not a threat. The Vorta are left to do the overseeing, of course, running things on the basis of their genetically in-built loyalty. So who oversees Vorta reproduction? Other Vorta? Do the Founders leave it to the Vorta leaders to decide which Vorta is mated with which, what tinkering goes on i9n the genome? Is that wise?

Anyway, I'm guessing the Vorta are bred in testtubes or something, from DNA donated by male and female couples as directed by whoever-it-is-overseeing-this-process (Founder or Vorta). I'd assume that they are then "born" (maybe rapidly grown to adulthood like Jem'Hadar, maybe having a "childhood" of sorts) and then eventually they die as normal. Unless they are selected for important roles or they prove valuable in service, in which case that particular "model" of Vorta is kept around. The Founders don't want to waste a good one.

Okay, I'm aware that Odo says in "Treachery, Faith and the Great River" that he knows "the Vorta are all clones", but we don't have to take that literally.

So, I'm guessing they breed, but that the Founders may well have removed their capacity to form emotional attachments over the issue, and removed their drive to reproduce except when directed. Quite how that'd be achieved, I don't know. But it would help make sure Vorta don't get distracted.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Did anyone here read "Brave New World?" If new Vorta were being bred rather than cloned, I imagine it would be a similar process to what was in that book.

 

[Isadorabelle]

I haven't read "Brave New World". If no one has any objections to spoilers, I'd love to know more about it.

The breeding thing and cloning select ones makes sense. I'm a fan of Vorta and a few select others, like Cardassians. So, I like asking questions and getting input.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

"Brave New World" .... well, it's basically a bunch of test tube babies... no actual parents. They do have a childhood though, which I imagine the Vorta don't. A different humans are engineered and conditioned for their place in society.

 

[Timo]

There are no physically female Jems because they are presumably weaker and not as useful as soldiers.

This might well be true if the Jem'Hadar were derived from a preexisting, "natural" species that followed the human pattern where wombs and fighting muscles are separated for the greater good of the species. If the Jem'Hadar were engineered from the very start, though, there'd be nothing to prevent the designing of a "female" Jem'Hadar that has superior fighting abilities yet e.g. bears children, or makes males go mad with lust, or perhaps both.

At least the latter ability might be a tactical advantage sometimes. Similarly, while we have no reason yet to think that Jem'Hadar males exist, it might be a military advantage to equip the frontline Jem'Hadar with the ability to rape (although probably without an uncontrolled desire to do so).

There exists one major reason for giving genders to the Vorta... Most of the Solids under Dominion's heel are sexually reproducing humanoids, from what we can see. Moreover, "The Search" et al. make it seem as if the Dominion wishes to portray the Vorta as its highest leaders, thus hiding the existence of the Changelings. If it were evident that the Vorta were "nothing but" clones, it would also become evident that they aren't quite masters of their own fate, and the Dominion subjects would begin to suspect that there might exist secret leaders above the Vorta. And the Changelings clearly don't want that to happen: the existence of Founders ought to remain a myth at most to the Dominion subjects.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DevilEyes]

There are no physically female Jems because they are presumably weaker and not as useful as soldiers.

This might well be true if the Jem'Hadar were derived from a preexisting, "natural" species that followed the human pattern where wombs and fighting muscles are separated for the greater good of the species. If the Jem'Hadar were engineered from the very start, though, there'd be nothing to prevent the designing of a "female" Jem'Hadar that has superior fighting abilities yet e.g. bears children, or makes males go mad with lust, or perhaps both.

Bearing children is exactly why the Founders don't need "female" Jem'Hadar. As for lust, why wouldn't "male" Jem'Hadar be designed to drive females - or males who are into males - go mad with lust? Because that's not the purpose of a Jem'Hadar. Their purpose is to fight for the Founders and be efficient killing machines. And, for that reason, I don't see a reason to believe that any of the Jem'Hadar are male, either, apart in the sense of being played by male actors. They did confirm that there are no female Jemmies, but they never actually said they were male, did they? It was just Jadzia's assumption because they looked male. We can just presume that they have the shape that we usually associate with male humans because 1) they don't need breasts to feed babies, and 2) they don't need wide hips to more easily give birth, and 3) the generic form that is usually associated with a male humanoid was deemed more suitable for combat. But I see no evidence that they even have male reproductive organs, a necessary prerequisite of maleness (though not for 'masculinity' as a gender). What would they need them for? Contrary to your beliefs, the Founders don't seem to think much of rape as a weapon (and BTW, even if they wanted to use rape, they could just as well use an object for that purpose), and prefer their Jem'Hadar to simply kill.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

^Aye, I think you're right. If the Founders want a race/culture/organization dead, they don't care about the psychological aspect. Just kill 'em.

We don't know if they were 'adapted' or designed from the start but either way, the way Jem'hadar are now, they don't need reproductive organs. There's no need for it.

I was thinking, though, about the future of the Jem'hadar after they have somewhat thrown off the shackles of the Founders, would they continue reproducing the same way? Or would they be interested in modifying themselves back to their 'original' form if indeed they have one? Although their ingrained personality is geared only towards fighting, so even without the Founders controlling things, it's not something the Jems would necessarily ever be interested in. Unless cloning became too inefficient...but then again, genetic modification wouldn't be much more efficient in getting to that original state.
On the other hand, who says that original state involved males and females...they could be asexual/parthenogenic for all we know.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I do believe the Vorta at one point in their history reproduced sexually, if we take the story Weyoun six told Odo as face value. The Jem'Hadar, I don't think they ever did.

 

[Destructor]

I believe the policy on Jem'Hadar gender is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

HAH!

I imagine there is a similar policy on whether or not Vorta are sexual beings, no?

 

[Timo]

If the Founders want a race/culture/organization dead, they don't care about the psychological aspect. Just kill 'em.

See, I don't think that's the case at all.

Just like the Founders, the Jem'Hadar are depicted as something of a myth in the Dominion. They are the bogeymen who come if you don't behave - but everybody behaves, exactly because they fear the bogeymen. So the Jem'Hadar need not actually come at all.

Their invisibility is also an apparent psychological warfare tool. They don't use it in combat: when they fire their guns or swing their blades, they always do it visibly. But being invisible is psychologically useful: the Dominion citizen can never know the Jem'Hadar are not behind his shoulder, listening to his seditious comments!

For that reason, I think the Dominion would do everything in its power to maximize the ability of the Jem'Hadar to hurt, instead of kill, the enemy. After all, Weoyun in "To the Death" claims that there has been no real enemy other than Dominion's own citizens for the past two thousand years - every opponent has been a pushover, defeated and forgotten. The Jem'Hadar would be incorrectly designed if they were optimized for defeating a worthy military opponent, then...

Timo Saloniemi