The best Saavik?

[Chrisisall]

Who played the best Saavik and why?

I say: Kirstie Alley, by miles.

As PRESENTED in the finished films, she was, in effect, Vulcan. Therefore, logic alone dictates that Curtis' performance of the character was more precise, given our knowledge of the species.

Or are you an anti-cannon dude? Big chests influence your interpretation of an actors interpretation, eh?

 

[Chrisisall]

is there some law on Vulcan that mandates that Vulcans aren't allowed to dress their hair in a variety of fashions?

"Beakman's Law."
Apparently.

 

[Chrisisall]

Robin Curtis by several million miles. She pulls off being a Vulcan perfectly whereas Alley never got that right, and for my money, looks a hell of a lot nicer.

EPIC AGREE!!

 

[StarshipDefiant]

I really like Kirstie Alley, but I am a bit biased, because in most cases I'd prefer the original. Granted, the second actress made her more 'Vulcan' but even with my love with Vulcans, I can't buy that they are all stoic, emotionless beings. Kirstie Alley's version of it, IMO showed flaws, a character who questioned emotions and 'rash decisions' but made a couple herself.

 

[Chrisisall]

Kirstie Alley's version of it, IMO showed flaws, a character who questioned emotions and 'rash decisions' but made a couple herself.

Okay, you just wanted her big-time, it's okay, I thought she was totally hot in "Runaway" myself!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Who played the best Saavik and why?

I say: Kirstie Alley, by miles.

As PRESENTED in the finished films, she was, in effect, Vulcan. Therefore, logic alone dictates that Curtis' performance of the character was more precise, given our knowledge of the species.

Or are you an anti-cannon dude? Big chests influence your interpretation of an actors interpretation, eh?

Big chests, small chests, medium chests...it's all good to me.

Anti-canon? All the way: Saavik was half-Romulan, the first Klingon in Starfleet was Konom, Spock did have a brother called Sybok, Kirk and crew served on Excelsior between STIII and IV, Nero did spend 25 years on Rura Penthe, Uhura married Stonn and Captain Janeway is dead.

It's all good.

 

[s4ua]

Kirstie Alley, because she seems to act more like a vulcan than the other actors.

 

[A beaker full of death]

It makes no sense to have ALL Vulcans, or any alien race, look the same.

It's rather part of the very definition of "race," really.
You're taking the space-alien stuff too literally. As a story-telling construct, the alien races encountered in Star Trek stood in for the races encountered on 17-19th century missions of exploration/colonization, representing for dramatic purposes specific challenges or threats.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Then they got just plain stupid and decided there should be African-American Vulcans (I shit you not, I've seen Tuvok described that way.)

Why is it absurd to see dark-skinned Vulcans on such a hot desert planet? Many people on Earth who live in such areas have extra melanin to cope. ST III even had Vulcans played by Asian actors.

Without Dorothy Fontana's anthropological sensibility, Trek aliens became just absurd.

And yet people have called her Andorians "hokey" and her Tellarites "stupid".

 

[A beaker full of death]

I suspect the people who prefer Curtis first saw Alley in Cheers rather than in TWOK, so they're prejudiced by their preconceptions.

Curtis really was awful.

ENNNH, wrong answer, Hans!
ST2 was my first exposure to her, and Curtis was the best Saavik. Wanna go to double jeopardy where the stakes can really increase?

McClaneisall

Then I guess you just have a thing for overly emotional performances.
And don't call me "Hans."

 

[A beaker full of death]

Then they got just plain stupid and decided there should be African-American Vulcans (I shit you not, I've seen Tuvok described that way.)

Why is it absurd to see dark-skinned Vulcans on such a hot desert planet? Many people on Earth who live in such areas have extra melanin to cope. ST III even had Vulcans played by Asian actors.

The absurd part is making Vulcan's races just like those of Earth. Why not a dark green Vulcan?
The Tuvok character was a totally blown opportunity. The first "black" Vulcan we see, and in charge of weapons, at that. Did his forbears come from a different geographical region of Vulcan, and if so, had there been conflict? What was the history? What drew him to security, an area the Vulcans we knew up to that point would traditionally frown upon?
Instead of exploring these issues, TPTW paid a little lip service to myticism and then made him just an American with funny ears.

Without Dorothy Fontana's anthropological sensibility, Trek aliens became just absurd.

And yet people have called her Andorians "hokey" and her Tellarites "stupid".

You know what people say about opinions...
Fontana really did understand that "alien" wasn't about a few bumps on the head, or even different customs. It was about an entirely different outlook on life (and death and everything in between).

 

[Therin of Andor]

Fontana really did understand that "alien" wasn't about a few bumps on the head, or even different customs. It was about an entirely different outlook on life (and death and everything in between).

Mmmm. As much as I admire DC Fontana, I'm flummoxed as to what part of her TOS and TAS work leads you to set her up as such an exemplar. She attempted to keep the Vulcans on the straight and narrow during TOS, writing memos and suggesting ways to keep hybrid Spock unique among both Vulcans and humans.

ST has done "alien" very well over the decades. The Children of Tama, Species 8472, ENT's Andorians, Benzites, Bolians, Betazoids, the Dominion races... Compared to all of those, what did we learn about TOS/TAS Andorians, TOS Tellarites, TAS Edoans, TAS Caitians, TOS Catullans, TOS Tiburonians, etc, that went beyond some non-human body features and a very brief statement of Andorian and Tellarite mindsets?

Please give examples of DC Fontana's aliens' "entirely different outlook on life".

Why not a dark green Vulcan?

Time, money, and the actor's willingness to spend many extra hours every day getting thick dark green makeup on every exposed body part. And more time spent for Wardrobe trying to get all the green stains out of Tuvok costumes every night. And repeat for his understudy and any stuntmen. The blueness of Shran only had to happen a few times each season in ENT. A dark green lead character - for seven years - is a very expensive statement on "race".

 

[RyuRoots]

I suspect the people who prefer Curtis first saw Alley in Cheers rather than in TWOK, so they're prejudiced by their preconceptions.

Curtis really was awful.

ENNNH, wrong answer, Hans!
ST2 was my first exposure to her, and Curtis was the best Saavik. Wanna go to double jeopardy where the stakes can really increase?

McClaneisall

Then I guess you just have a thing for overly emotional performances.

No, I suppose he has a thing for someone who can play a Vulcan worth a damn. Which Curtis could and Alley could not.

Now, if you actually want to raise some kind of point and discuss it, instead of making inane statements, feel free.

 

[A beaker full of death]

^Since you can't be civil, I decline. If you want to read my more specific points about Curtis's failings, read way upthread. Or don't. Somehow I just don't really care.

 

[T'Girl]

Big chests . . .

If you think Kristie Alley has a "Big" chest you need to get out more. If Saavik had developed into a ongoing character Alley, not Curtis, would have been the ideal choice. Alley demonstrated superior acting range over the course of her professional career. Not just comedy but drama too, lots of work. Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I suppose he has a thing for someone who can play a Vulcan worth a damn. Which Curtis could and Alley could not.

Kirstie Alley was playing a hybrid Vulcan/Romulan. The script (and the director) told her to play certain scenes with degrees of Romulan emotion. As I child she was a ST fan. She used to practise eyebrow raises in the mirror, pretending to be Spock's kid sister. She knew how Vulcans acted and she knew how emotional Romulans could be.

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Very true. Alley played the part exactly as she was told. However, when all the references to her Romulan heritage were dropped, we the viewers were left to assume that the character was, in fact, a full Vulcan.

Therefore, I feel it is a valid criticism of the character to say that Alley's emotional performance is a detriment. If they were going to cut her Romulan heritage out, they should have toned down her emotional reactions in the editing room as well.

 

[cooleddie74]

^ Very true. Alley played the part exactly as she was told. However, when all the references to her Romulan heritage were dropped, we the viewers were left to assume that the character was, in fact, a full Vulcan.

Therefore, I feel it is a valid criticism of the character to say that Alley's emotional performance is a detriment. If they were going to cut her Romulan heritage out, they should have toned down her emotional reactions in the editing room as well.

EXACTLY. This is how I've felt about Kirstie's performance for ages. Once the Romulan connection was 86ed from the final edit of the film her performance should have been toned down just a little more than it wound up being.

 

[Chrisisall]

Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.

This is not a discussion of careers here. Saavik, that's all.
And I like Curtis' performance better is all.

 

[RandyS]

I suspect the people who prefer Curtis first saw Alley in Cheers rather than in TWOK, so they're prejudiced by their preconceptions.

Curtis really was awful.

As somebody who didn't even see his first Cheers episode until 1991, I have to say that both of your assertions are wrong.

At least, as pertaining to me.

Robin Curtis was the best Saavik. No question.