The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.."
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Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
If I'm not too much mistaken it was done, at least in part, by Gabe Koerner of the "I'm busy right now, GO AWAY!" fame from the Trekkies Docu.
You'd think he, of all people, would've gotten right the fact that the saucer nacelles weren't on unless in seperated flight mode. Sheesh, Gabe!
Beautiful, CGI model, but I dunno I prefer "real" models far more than CG ones. It looks good, well detailed, but it just doesn't work "real" to me. Some of the formation lights by the nacelles I don't recall being there, at least not so obviously, and the blue nacelles just look like that "fake glow" of CGI and not the natural glow of the lights. (Actually all of the engine lighting on the model has this look.)
Fine, fine, fine work for sure. But it's not nearly nearly as great as the physical model and certainly just doesn't do the sheer awesomeness, grandeur and majesty of that Great Lady any justice.
If I'm not too much mistaken it was done, at least in part, by Gabe Koerner of the "I'm busy right now, GO AWAY!" fame from the Trekkies Docu.
You'd think he, of all people, would've gotten right the fact that the saucer nacelles weren't on unless in seperated flight mode. Sheesh, Gabe!
Beautiful, CGI model, but I dunno I prefer "real" models far more than CG ones. It looks good, well detailed, but it just doesn't work "real" to me. Some of the formation lights by the nacelles I don't recall being there, at least not so obviously, and the blue nacelles just look like that "fake glow" of CGI and not the natural glow of the lights. (Actually all of the engine lighting on the model has this look.)
Fine, fine, fine work for sure. But it's not nearly nearly as great as the physical model and certainly just doesn't do the sheer awesomeness, grandeur and majesty of that Great Lady any justice.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
I think its a good combo between the 6ft and 4ft model...its a lot easier to get that look in CGI, that's probably why I like ut better than the physical model. Also, I think the asteroid field looks better in CGI than the original episode.
I think its a good combo between the 6ft and 4ft model...its a lot easier to get that look in CGI, that's probably why I like ut better than the physical model. Also, I think the asteroid field looks better in CGI than the original episode.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Best appearance of the Ent-D in my opinion was in Generations, particuarly the scenes where the Ent-D warps away from Amargosa, and as it's about to go to warp after Picard gave the order in Stellar Cartography.
I too am a fan of actual models, and I find the CGI in TatV a bit distracting. Something just does not look right about it. I think it might be the shape of the nacelles and the glow of the impulse engines.
Best appearance of the Ent-D in my opinion was in Generations, particuarly the scenes where the Ent-D warps away from Amargosa, and as it's about to go to warp after Picard gave the order in Stellar Cartography.
I too am a fan of actual models, and I find the CGI in TatV a bit distracting. Something just does not look right about it. I think it might be the shape of the nacelles and the glow of the impulse engines.
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Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Good point. Has he spoken publicly about this?
Good point. Has he spoken publicly about this?
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
The model looked beautiful in Generations. God I love and miss that ship.
The parts the bug the most is the glow of the various engines (it just looks "fake" and not like "real lights") on the ship (the deflector glow looks okay), the deflector dish just doesn't look right to me. As if it's all one piece and not what it "really is" (a dish inside a blue glowing housing) and the formation lights around the saucer engines didn't seem right to me. IIRC int he show they even blinked and I can't recall this lighting being there in the show and, yeah, like I said the saucer's engines didn't glow in connected flight mode.
I would've, a bit, of appreciated some interor detailing through the windows in the CG model there, too. And, I dunno, it just looks... 'fake." The asteroids and space all looks good but the ship just doesn't have any sense of grandeur or scale to it.
I mean, it doesn't do much justice, look here LINK. Look at the glow of the engines (notably that the glow casts out and over the nacelle) that there seems to be more "ridges" inside the field coils (the blue bits). There's also another great shot of the ship where the camera looks up and the ship flys "over head" and the ship just looks.... Oh so awesome. It's even greater in the video, on a big nice TV watching the whole ship pass by. It's ohhh. If they ever do "remaster" TNG I want shots like this to look perfect.
This CGI model is finely crafted but it's like comparing even a very good drawing of a woman to the "real thing." Just doesn't do the justice the real thing deserves. The Enterprise-D/Galaxy is a gorgeous, grand, ship and demands nothing less than perfection from me to make her look right.
Generations, for the most part, pulled that off very, very well.
And I won't blame Gabe too much for the "imperfections" in the model (aside from the impulse vents which he should've known to have dark!!!) in it not looking grand, perfect, well lit, and beautiful. Given the budget and time constraints it does look good, and the space background/asteroid field it was in looks good. But give me the Generations ship, or any of the model work donw with her in the series any day.
The model looked beautiful in Generations. God I love and miss that ship.
The parts the bug the most is the glow of the various engines (it just looks "fake" and not like "real lights") on the ship (the deflector glow looks okay), the deflector dish just doesn't look right to me. As if it's all one piece and not what it "really is" (a dish inside a blue glowing housing) and the formation lights around the saucer engines didn't seem right to me. IIRC int he show they even blinked and I can't recall this lighting being there in the show and, yeah, like I said the saucer's engines didn't glow in connected flight mode.
I would've, a bit, of appreciated some interor detailing through the windows in the CG model there, too. And, I dunno, it just looks... 'fake." The asteroids and space all looks good but the ship just doesn't have any sense of grandeur or scale to it.
I mean, it doesn't do much justice, look here LINK. Look at the glow of the engines (notably that the glow casts out and over the nacelle) that there seems to be more "ridges" inside the field coils (the blue bits). There's also another great shot of the ship where the camera looks up and the ship flys "over head" and the ship just looks.... Oh so awesome. It's even greater in the video, on a big nice TV watching the whole ship pass by. It's ohhh. If they ever do "remaster" TNG I want shots like this to look perfect.
This CGI model is finely crafted but it's like comparing even a very good drawing of a woman to the "real thing." Just doesn't do the justice the real thing deserves. The Enterprise-D/Galaxy is a gorgeous, grand, ship and demands nothing less than perfection from me to make her look right.
Generations, for the most part, pulled that off very, very well.
And I won't blame Gabe too much for the "imperfections" in the model (aside from the impulse vents which he should've known to have dark!!!) in it not looking grand, perfect, well lit, and beautiful. Given the budget and time constraints it does look good, and the space background/asteroid field it was in looks good. But give me the Generations ship, or any of the model work donw with her in the series any day.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
I think the best model is the one from the opening credits; the shot where the ship passes underneath the camera is fantastic. Seeing people in the conference room gives you a great sense of scale. I think that was the 6-footer? The one in Generations was good too.
I think the best model is the one from the opening credits; the shot where the ship passes underneath the camera is fantastic. Seeing people in the conference room gives you a great sense of scale. I think that was the 6-footer? The one in Generations was good too.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Comparison...TATV and Evolution:
Trekker..I respectfully disagree...in particular the close-up shot from TATV reveals the capability of CGI to offer a wider array of shot choices that look more like movie effects than the TV effects. Also, while the "glow" from the warp coils is different I actually think a reduced glow looks better.
Comparison...TATV and Evolution:
Trekker..I respectfully disagree...in particular the close-up shot from TATV reveals the capability of CGI to offer a wider array of shot choices that look more like movie effects than the TV effects. Also, while the "glow" from the warp coils is different I actually think a reduced glow looks better.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
You're comparing a 780 HDTV digital broadcast to a 420(?) SD videotape-to-digital transfer, further harmed by the compression of the internet and transfer from DVD to the host of the website.
I don't think it's a fair comparisson. It's like compating an old 45 to a mp3 of the same song. It's hard to compare which one sounds better because a lot happens from A to B, different mediums and all.
While that's not a great screen cap the "source" just isn't that fantastic. I think the "real thing" looks better and the screen caps on Trek Core don't do her justice, that same shot looks great on my TV.
It's hard to compare pure digitial to analog. But some nitpicks on the TATV one that I have.
First of all, the aforementioned saucer impulse engines being lit. That's just the kind of detail someone over looked that is unacceptable. It ranks up there with the phaser blast coming out of the torpedo tube in the fourth-freaking season of the show. It's nitpicky but I'm a nerd, so...
2. The single line in the warp nacelle field coil. If you look at the "real model" in other creen caps there's far more grids/layers in it.
3. The saucer's bottom looks "too flat" to me. Esp. on the port side there just on the otherside of the dorsal neck. Something about it just sticks out as "THIS IS CGI AND NOT A REAL THING!" to me. I think part of it is that the phaser strip looks too much like a colored line on the saucer rather than the rised "bump" that it is.
4. No "grid lines" in the impulse engine(s).
5. As I said up thread the diminished glow of the warp engines just makes it look more fake and more like, I dunno, a model or like a toy or a graphic in a computer game. There's no sense of the terrawatts of power being harnessed in those engines.
6. Similar lighting "realism" issues with the bussard collectors as I have with the other engine lights.
7. This may be due to compression of the screen-caps but the surface of the ship looks a little too clean and smooth. Without the "aztecing" plating/shield generator details
On a technichal level it looks great and probably the "best" the ship has looked on TV, but that is mostly that's credited to it being an HD image captured fom HD TV in 780 as opposed to 420/whatever SD that DVD is. To me it just lacks a certain "realism" to it. It doesn't look real to me. I see it as a computer graphic it, to me, looks like it belongs in a video game.
A much better comparisson would probably be the Generations screen shots as the resolution and media probably translates better.
That, to me, is endlessly more beautiful, graceful, and complementary to the Great Lady than the TATV one.
(of paticular note, look at the color variations in the Bussard Colelctors and the glow of the engine field coils.
You're comparing a 780 HDTV digital broadcast to a 420(?) SD videotape-to-digital transfer, further harmed by the compression of the internet and transfer from DVD to the host of the website.
I don't think it's a fair comparisson. It's like compating an old 45 to a mp3 of the same song. It's hard to compare which one sounds better because a lot happens from A to B, different mediums and all.
While that's not a great screen cap the "source" just isn't that fantastic. I think the "real thing" looks better and the screen caps on Trek Core don't do her justice, that same shot looks great on my TV.
It's hard to compare pure digitial to analog. But some nitpicks on the TATV one that I have.
First of all, the aforementioned saucer impulse engines being lit. That's just the kind of detail someone over looked that is unacceptable. It ranks up there with the phaser blast coming out of the torpedo tube in the fourth-freaking season of the show. It's nitpicky but I'm a nerd, so...
2. The single line in the warp nacelle field coil. If you look at the "real model" in other creen caps there's far more grids/layers in it.
3. The saucer's bottom looks "too flat" to me. Esp. on the port side there just on the otherside of the dorsal neck. Something about it just sticks out as "THIS IS CGI AND NOT A REAL THING!" to me. I think part of it is that the phaser strip looks too much like a colored line on the saucer rather than the rised "bump" that it is.
4. No "grid lines" in the impulse engine(s).
5. As I said up thread the diminished glow of the warp engines just makes it look more fake and more like, I dunno, a model or like a toy or a graphic in a computer game. There's no sense of the terrawatts of power being harnessed in those engines.
6. Similar lighting "realism" issues with the bussard collectors as I have with the other engine lights.
7. This may be due to compression of the screen-caps but the surface of the ship looks a little too clean and smooth. Without the "aztecing" plating/shield generator details
On a technichal level it looks great and probably the "best" the ship has looked on TV, but that is mostly that's credited to it being an HD image captured fom HD TV in 780 as opposed to 420/whatever SD that DVD is. To me it just lacks a certain "realism" to it. It doesn't look real to me. I see it as a computer graphic it, to me, looks like it belongs in a video game.
A much better comparisson would probably be the Generations screen shots as the resolution and media probably translates better.
That, to me, is endlessly more beautiful, graceful, and complementary to the Great Lady than the TATV one.
(of paticular note, look at the color variations in the Bussard Colelctors and the glow of the engine field coils.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Just some more beauty shot of the Ent-D from "Generations", shots made using the studio models a full tweleve years before TATV.
Between these and the TATV shot.
One of these versions of the -D looks like a "real" ship that's a half-mile long, nearly as tall as a 50-story building and can generate terrawatts of power every second to bend space-time such that it can travel at nearly 2000 times the speed of light.
The other looks like a perk in Star Trek: Online.
Also, in the Generations caps, note the deactivated saucer impulse engines.
Oh!
Also a shot of the Odyssey from Deep Space Nine. (I do not recall if this was a model or if DS9 was on CGI when they did this, I suspect it was still the model. But DS9's filming techniques were a bit better and less "rough" than the TNG S3 Screencap above.)
Just some more beauty shot of the Ent-D from "Generations", shots made using the studio models a full tweleve years before TATV.
Between these and the TATV shot.
One of these versions of the -D looks like a "real" ship that's a half-mile long, nearly as tall as a 50-story building and can generate terrawatts of power every second to bend space-time such that it can travel at nearly 2000 times the speed of light.
The other looks like a perk in Star Trek: Online.
Also, in the Generations caps, note the deactivated saucer impulse engines.
Oh!
Also a shot of the Odyssey from Deep Space Nine. (I do not recall if this was a model or if DS9 was on CGI when they did this, I suspect it was still the model. But DS9's filming techniques were a bit better and less "rough" than the TNG S3 Screencap above.)
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Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
My main two comparisons were the "crooked" nacelles of the model and the blue glow..the resolution wasn't really an issue and I DID point it out. Those 2 pics are a better comparison than the hyper-detailed large screen movie model, which was beautifully filmed for Generations. They are both TV level shots. Still with a few tweaks, a CGI movie version would probably be very comparable to the Generations shots. I've never seen more solid, realistic far future CGI spacecraft than in ST:09 (Kelvin, Enterprise), so I'm sure with equal resources the E-D would look spectacular.
Also the third shot I posted is actually an angle never quite seen in the TV show or movie..and I like the detail a lot...the saucer impulse glow notwithstanding.
RAMA
You're comparing a 780 HDTV digital broadcast to a 420(?) SD videotape-to-digital transfer, further harmed by the compression of the internet and transfer from DVD to the host of the website.
I don't think it's a fair comparisson. It's like compating an old 45 to a mp3 of the same song. It's hard to compare which one sounds better because a lot happens from A to B, different mediums and all.
While that's not a great screen cap the "source" just isn't that fantastic. I think the "real thing" looks better and the screen caps on Trek Core don't do her justice, that same shot looks great on my TV.
It's hard to compare pure digitial to analog. But some nitpicks on the TATV one that I have.
First of all, the aforementioned saucer impulse engines being lit. That's just the kind of detail someone over looked that is unacceptable. It ranks up there with the phaser blast coming out of the torpedo tube in the fourth-freaking season of the show. It's nitpicky but I'm a nerd, so...
2. The single line in the warp nacelle field coil. If you look at the "real model" in other creen caps there's far more grids/layers in it.
3. The saucer's bottom looks "too flat" to me. Esp. on the port side there just on the otherside of the dorsal neck. Something about it just sticks out as "THIS IS CGI AND NOT A REAL THING!" to me. I think part of it is that the phaser strip looks too much like a colored line on the saucer rather than the rised "bump" that it is.
4. No "grid lines" in the impulse engine(s).
5. As I said up thread the diminished glow of the warp engines just makes it look more fake and more like, I dunno, a model or like a toy or a graphic in a computer game. There's no sense of the terrawatts of power being harnessed in those engines.
6. Similar lighting "realism" issues with the bussard collectors as I have with the other engine lights.
7. This may be due to compression of the screen-caps but the surface of the ship looks a little too clean and smooth. Without the "aztecing" plating/shield generator details
On a technichal level it looks great and probably the "best" the ship has looked on TV, but that is mostly that's credited to it being an HD image captured fom HD TV in 780 as opposed to 420/whatever SD that DVD is. To me it just lacks a certain "realism" to it. It doesn't look real to me. I see it as a computer graphic it, to me, looks like it belongs in a video game.
A much better comparisson would probably be the Generations screen shots as the resolution and media probably translates better.
That, to me, is endlessly more beautiful, graceful, and complementary to the Great Lady than the TATV one.
(of paticular note, look at the color variations in the Bussard Colelctors and the glow of the engine field coils.
My main two comparisons were the "crooked" nacelles of the model and the blue glow..the resolution wasn't really an issue and I DID point it out. Those 2 pics are a better comparison than the hyper-detailed large screen movie model, which was beautifully filmed for Generations. They are both TV level shots. Still with a few tweaks, a CGI movie version would probably be very comparable to the Generations shots. I've never seen more solid, realistic far future CGI spacecraft than in ST:09 (Kelvin, Enterprise), so I'm sure with equal resources the E-D would look spectacular.
Also the third shot I posted is actually an angle never quite seen in the TV show or movie..and I like the detail a lot...the saucer impulse glow notwithstanding.
RAMA
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Hehehe, Trekker4747 does in this thread what Warped9 did in that TOS-R thread, hehehe...
Hehehe, Trekker4747 does in this thread what Warped9 did in that TOS-R thread, hehehe...
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
A good summary to this thread would be...
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
I can see beauty in both. I particularly like the raised lifeboats on the CGI model. The impulse engines on the saucer being lit is unforgivable and it can look "cartoony" in some shots.
A good summary to this thread would be...
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
I can see beauty in both. I particularly like the raised lifeboats on the CGI model. The impulse engines on the saucer being lit is unforgivable and it can look "cartoony" in some shots.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
In a few days I'll be releasing a fan remastering of a season two TNG episode. The idea I had was to treat this kinda like TOS:R Check out the thread over in fan productions....I'd say my effects closely mirror the work they did on ENT.
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=127134
In a few days I'll be releasing a fan remastering of a season two TNG episode. The idea I had was to treat this kinda like TOS:R Check out the thread over in fan productions....I'd say my effects closely mirror the work they did on ENT.
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=127134
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Since I'm an animator / modeler, of course I'd learn more towards CGI then a giant physical model.... as even with a physical model you are restricted on the amount of detail you can have on it based on it's overall size.
More detail usually requires a larger model, where in CGI, you can have all that detail and then some and you're only limited by the system your running.
The arguments of lighting between the physical and CGI is kind of pointless considering in both cases, the illumination is done through computers. The illumination of the physical model was of course added in after the model was filmed in motion and they added the special effects in afterward through various processes..... which is pretty much what is done in most CGI production, except the process isn't as cumbersome, so the difference in illumination is only differed between technology and artist preference..... but both are pretty much done through computers in both cases.
Whenever someone shows me screen shots of what was used in the actual show in order to provide examples of the detail used on the physical model...... all I see is fuzzy and blurry images where very little detail is seen at all..... even when I watch it through on my tv or computer screen at home it's still blurry.
One can blame it one lower dpi or film vs. digital, but it all comes in parcel with the package, which is the final product the viewer is looking at. Maybe the physical model does have a pile of detail and such.... but I was never there in person during production to look at those details and it's not what you see in the final episode produced for viewing.
And yeah, you don't normally see the "Impulse" engines on the saucer illuminated unless separated from the secondary hull, but there were times I saw the warp dive on the saucer illuminated during an episode in much the same way..... so if the big shots making the show can screw up on something like this, I can let this slide and doesn't bug me all that much.
Sample of episode where saucer warp drive was active when it shouldn't have been:
And I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure I seen in some earlier season episodes where they had the impulse engines on the saucer illuminated as shown above in the CGI shots.... so nobody's perfect.
I guess on could pull the excuse that they're active because the ship needs extra maneuverability in an asteroid field. :P
Besides, it doesn't take much work to open up the file, turn off the lighting and re-render the images, so it's not that big of a deal.
Since I'm an animator / modeler, of course I'd learn more towards CGI then a giant physical model.... as even with a physical model you are restricted on the amount of detail you can have on it based on it's overall size.
More detail usually requires a larger model, where in CGI, you can have all that detail and then some and you're only limited by the system your running.
The arguments of lighting between the physical and CGI is kind of pointless considering in both cases, the illumination is done through computers. The illumination of the physical model was of course added in after the model was filmed in motion and they added the special effects in afterward through various processes..... which is pretty much what is done in most CGI production, except the process isn't as cumbersome, so the difference in illumination is only differed between technology and artist preference..... but both are pretty much done through computers in both cases.
Whenever someone shows me screen shots of what was used in the actual show in order to provide examples of the detail used on the physical model...... all I see is fuzzy and blurry images where very little detail is seen at all..... even when I watch it through on my tv or computer screen at home it's still blurry.
One can blame it one lower dpi or film vs. digital, but it all comes in parcel with the package, which is the final product the viewer is looking at. Maybe the physical model does have a pile of detail and such.... but I was never there in person during production to look at those details and it's not what you see in the final episode produced for viewing.
And yeah, you don't normally see the "Impulse" engines on the saucer illuminated unless separated from the secondary hull, but there were times I saw the warp dive on the saucer illuminated during an episode in much the same way..... so if the big shots making the show can screw up on something like this, I can let this slide and doesn't bug me all that much.
Sample of episode where saucer warp drive was active when it shouldn't have been:
And I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure I seen in some earlier season episodes where they had the impulse engines on the saucer illuminated as shown above in the CGI shots.... so nobody's perfect.
I guess on could pull the excuse that they're active because the ship needs extra maneuverability in an asteroid field. :P
Besides, it doesn't take much work to open up the file, turn off the lighting and re-render the images, so it's not that big of a deal.
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
Funny, the episode I'm re-mastering had the impulse engines on the saucer illuminated in some scenes, since I had to turn them on in the 3d world to be accurate, I decided to do all of the effects work with all three impulse engines lit, much as the folks on TATV did. Personally I don't mind seeing all the engines lit, I think it makes the old gal look quite nice... BTW The only good thing about TATV was seeing the Enterprise-D again.
Also, since it was never described on screen what the black (un-lit), sometimes blue strip of lights near the lateral saucer are I think it's a little much to assume it's a "warp drive". I can't reference exact sources off the top of my head but I'm pretty confident the saucer is incapable of warp speed, since they made it such a point to do that trick in Encounter at Farpoint. I'd always guessed it was some kind of sensor strip. Maybe there's something in a tech manual about it?
Funny, the episode I'm re-mastering had the impulse engines on the saucer illuminated in some scenes, since I had to turn them on in the 3d world to be accurate, I decided to do all of the effects work with all three impulse engines lit, much as the folks on TATV did. Personally I don't mind seeing all the engines lit, I think it makes the old gal look quite nice... BTW The only good thing about TATV was seeing the Enterprise-D again.
Also, since it was never described on screen what the black (un-lit), sometimes blue strip of lights near the lateral saucer are I think it's a little much to assume it's a "warp drive". I can't reference exact sources off the top of my head but I'm pretty confident the saucer is incapable of warp speed, since they made it such a point to do that trick in Encounter at Farpoint. I'd always guessed it was some kind of sensor strip. Maybe there's something in a tech manual about it?
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
I have yet to actually see that episode.
And I've never heard of the Warp Drive being integrated with the impulse engines.... I'll have to dig out my book next time I'm thinking of it to confirm the warp details of the saucer section.
But the reason why they did that little high warp separation trick from my knowledge was because they didn't have time to drop warp and separate due to the energy field chasing after them, not because the Saucer section needed a "Boost"
Added:
Ok searching online for such information is starting to seem like a waste of time, and as usual, I'm going from memory of something I read months or even years ago.... so while I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure I saw a call out on the top profile in the Tech Manual stating it was supposed to be warp drive, and in a side profile (once again, memory) I thought there was a secondary engineering section, which would make sense considering there's impulse, one would think you'd have another engineering section to watch over whatever engines there are on the saucer section.
But if the Saucer section doesn't have warp drive, once again.... that to me is completely stupid beyond any understanding.
It's supposed to be a means of getting crew to a safe area or protect them from attack or other disaster.... exactly how the hell does the saucer section accomplish this with only impulse engines?
Basically the saucer section would be a sitting duck in most attacks and it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.... literally, and loaded with a pile of fish at that.
Which begs the question as to why one would include saucer separation in the first place. Obviously it didn't help much in Generations because it couldn't get far enough away from the warp core explosion from the secondary hull and if they didn't get the stabilizers back online in time, they would have turned into a guillotine and planted into the ground like a hunting knife being thrown.... probably blowing up and killing everyone aboard in the process, including spot.
I have yet to actually see that episode.
Based on the TNG technical manual, it notes the blue square areas in the rear between the impulse engines as the warp drive..... it'd be kind of silly to have the saucer section designed as a means of survival and escape in the middle of a disaster without warp drive, as it'd take them years to reach anywhere if they were lucky.
And I've never heard of the Warp Drive being integrated with the impulse engines.... I'll have to dig out my book next time I'm thinking of it to confirm the warp details of the saucer section.
But the reason why they did that little high warp separation trick from my knowledge was because they didn't have time to drop warp and separate due to the energy field chasing after them, not because the Saucer section needed a "Boost"
Added:
Ok searching online for such information is starting to seem like a waste of time, and as usual, I'm going from memory of something I read months or even years ago.... so while I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure I saw a call out on the top profile in the Tech Manual stating it was supposed to be warp drive, and in a side profile (once again, memory) I thought there was a secondary engineering section, which would make sense considering there's impulse, one would think you'd have another engineering section to watch over whatever engines there are on the saucer section.
But if the Saucer section doesn't have warp drive, once again.... that to me is completely stupid beyond any understanding.
It's supposed to be a means of getting crew to a safe area or protect them from attack or other disaster.... exactly how the hell does the saucer section accomplish this with only impulse engines?
Basically the saucer section would be a sitting duck in most attacks and it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.... literally, and loaded with a pile of fish at that.
Which begs the question as to why one would include saucer separation in the first place. Obviously it didn't help much in Generations because it couldn't get far enough away from the warp core explosion from the secondary hull and if they didn't get the stabilizers back online in time, they would have turned into a guillotine and planted into the ground like a hunting knife being thrown.... probably blowing up and killing everyone aboard in the process, including spot.
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Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
I don't think the ship has 2 separate warp drive systems. The power to maintain and run both systems would require 2 chief engineers! A cascading systems failure would be a huge nightmare. Instead of worrying about 1 dangerous anti-matter system you've got 2 to worry about blowing up. From a tactical standpoint, I'd take my 30 year old bird of prey and unload distrupters on the saucer warp drive till she blew and the cows came home. Think of the power demands on 2 warp systems, and the shielding required to defend the star drive section and that little part of the saucer!
If it is a warp drive, you could argue that it's un-lit most of the time because they simply turned it off like a light bulb, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I imagine it would be pretty difficult to simply turn on in case of emergency. I can't remember but the start-up routine seems to take several minutes... Anyways interesting non the less if they intended that to be an entirely separate warp drive. Maybe it's more like a shuttle's warp drive, compact, and low warp capable. But the size difference between a shuttle and the saucer...
You made a lot of good points, and I'd love to actually see specs on that sense I've never seen solid evidence to support either theory.
I don't think the ship has 2 separate warp drive systems. The power to maintain and run both systems would require 2 chief engineers!
A cascading systems failure would be a huge nightmare. Instead of worrying about 1 dangerous anti-matter system you've got 2 to worry about blowing up. From a tactical standpoint, I'd take my 30 year old bird of prey and unload distrupters on the saucer warp drive till she blew and the cows came home. Think of the power demands on 2 warp systems, and the shielding required to defend the star drive section and that little part of the saucer!If it is a warp drive, you could argue that it's un-lit most of the time because they simply turned it off like a light bulb, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I imagine it would be pretty difficult to simply turn on in case of emergency. I can't remember but the start-up routine seems to take several minutes... Anyways interesting non the less if they intended that to be an entirely separate warp drive. Maybe it's more like a shuttle's warp drive, compact, and low warp capable. But the size difference between a shuttle and the saucer...
Re: The beautiful Enterpise E-D CGI model from "These Are the Voyages.
The blue lights in the back of the saucer is the Arboretum. Having both the Tech Manual and the Blueprints, neither mark this area as being the Saucer's warpdrive. The saucer is warp incapable.
The blue lights in the back of the saucer is the Arboretum. Having both the Tech Manual and the Blueprints, neither mark this area as being the Saucer's warpdrive. The saucer is warp incapable.
