Spoilers The Batman (2022) - Review and Discussion Thread
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This guy actually has more followers now than the movie's Riddler
The deleted scene with the Joker has been released
I'm getting a strong Michael Mann "Manhunter" vibe from that scene.
PURE NIGHTMARE FUEL. 
Nicholson, Ledger, Phoenix (not you, Leto, sit down) - every time you think the last Joker's an impossible act to follow, someone new comes in and blows the others away. That one scene put more menace into the Joker than any of the others had in each of their whole films. I do get why they cut it, but as an audition tape for the (let's say) third Pattinson movie - Barry Keoghan nailed it.
Nicholson, Ledger, Phoenix (not you, Leto, sit down) - every time you think the last Joker's an impossible act to follow, someone new comes in and blows the others away. That one scene put more menace into the Joker than any of the others had in each of their whole films. I do get why they cut it, but as an audition tape for the (let's say) third Pattinson movie - Barry Keoghan nailed it.
I still need to see the movie, probably once it shows up on HBO Max next month.
I keep seeing people being blown away by this clip, but honestly, I'm glad it's cut. Putting aside my preference of being tired of a scarred up, disfigured Joker, this performance doesn't do anything for me. I think he kind of sounds like a stoned spring breaker or something. The nasally voice, the slurring. I dunno, it just doesn't seem that menacing or calculated to me, and that's how I like my Joker.
Pattinson is good in the clip, though.
I keep seeing people being blown away by this clip, but honestly, I'm glad it's cut. Putting aside my preference of being tired of a scarred up, disfigured Joker, this performance doesn't do anything for me. I think he kind of sounds like a stoned spring breaker or something. The nasally voice, the slurring. I dunno, it just doesn't seem that menacing or calculated to me, and that's how I like my Joker.
Pattinson is good in the clip, though.
So, I can't judge the film as I've not seen it. And won't until it hits HBO Max.
But, that said, there is a lot that scene gets very, very right for me. And that gives me a lot of hope for the rest of the film, in addition to enjoying the deleted scene.
Love the previous relationship established between Bats and Mr J. Dig the acid burned look for Joker, it's different enough but conveys exactly the core of his supposed origin story. And the actor nails the vibe. Not sure I'd dig a whole film of him as the villain, but he crushed this scene in particular. I still think Ledger's take resonates with me more, but he also had more time onscreen to establish himself so that isn't really a fair comparison to make. Blows the Leto Joker out of the water in literally every respect, however.
Does the rest of the movie feel as lovingly crafted by people who just kind of "get" the Batman and his rogues as this sequence does?
But, that said, there is a lot that scene gets very, very right for me. And that gives me a lot of hope for the rest of the film, in addition to enjoying the deleted scene.
Love the previous relationship established between Bats and Mr J. Dig the acid burned look for Joker, it's different enough but conveys exactly the core of his supposed origin story. And the actor nails the vibe. Not sure I'd dig a whole film of him as the villain, but he crushed this scene in particular. I still think Ledger's take resonates with me more, but he also had more time onscreen to establish himself so that isn't really a fair comparison to make. Blows the Leto Joker out of the water in literally every respect, however.
Does the rest of the movie feel as lovingly crafted by people who just kind of "get" the Batman and his rogues as this sequence does?
That scene with the Joker is way more interesting than the hint we got at the end of the film. While the performance is nothing mind blowing let's be honest, how do you jump over the bar set by what's come before? It's incredibly difficult, for the actor and the director to come up with a take that can be better or equal. What this scene feels like to me is that the Joker is part of a bigger world that doesn't revolve around him and Batman. He's a character in an ensemble of villains rather than "thee villain". I'm OK with that. There's room for development and growth to get to that point where he is the villain we respect.
I'm curious as to how this clip shows they "get" the characters. It was fine, well acted and all that, but it seems like each iteration of the Joker gets farther and farther away from the one I'm (actually now tired of) reading about in the comics.
I really wish they kep t this scene...it would have shown us the part that Batman HAS been around for at least a little while, with at least one major villain.
Well, i guess we will see in the sequel. If they are going to call back to the Batman TV show, we have all 4 villains show up (and if Catwoman were to bounce BETWEEN the 2 sides...)
I'd like them to keep the Joker as a "Dr. Lecter" type of foil for Batman. I'm not interested in seeing Bats go up against him as a main villain again. This was a good scene (I'm not unhappy that they cut it, btw) that established that they already went toe to toe and Batman won. Boom-Bam-done.
I agree that it should have been cut.
It's just too much for the first movie of Pattinson's era. Imagine after this scene we go The Riddler interrogation? People won't be focused on that. They'll just be thinking "Hey. When are we going back to the Joker?"
They risk playing their winning card too early.
Also.
Who thought it was a good idea to give The Joker documents with paperclips still attached? He should be treated with the highest level of caution
Well... as someone mentioned in this thread, like Batman, they're not the characters yet. Not being established yet is an excuse for characters being ignorant.
Hard same. I'm tired of them taking a villain who was already one of the scariest, and trying to push him creepier in on-the-nose ways. I also kind of miss when the Joker would be funny. I liked the idea that he was a failed comedian and didn't find his "voice" until, you know, homicide.
I always liked that Batman looked scary on the outside, but amassed orphans and gave them a family. The scary guy who cares very much. The type of Joker that works well of off that is one who's funny and charismatic, and then--BOOM, dangerous.
All of that said, I like everything else in the scene. The direction, etc. Even Joker's makeup is well-done, even if it's not to my taste. It's mainly Joker's performance that doesn't land for me. I have nothing against Keoghan as an actor, but he sounds like a kid playing Joker in a fanfilm to me.
But what do I know? Every reaction video about this clip is "THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE MOVIE!"
For me part, one of the reasons I've always enjoyed Batman: TAS is that that show effectively balanced the Joker being a highly psychotic (and very dangerous) villain with also having a fun and humorous side, albeit in a twisted way. Probably the most famous example I can think of is the mock funeral for Sid/Batman in "The Man Who Killed Batman."
Done properly, the blending of evil and humor is very creepy. It's a tough balance.
I prefer the animated versions of the Joker because they are more faithful to the source material. Yes, Joker is crazy, but he also has a twisted humorous side to him. Nicholson is the only live action version that comes close. The rest seem to want to portray psychos who happen to laugh.
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There should be a Joker who just looks like a regular guy, until you notice he's wearing huge clowns shoes.