Spoilers The Bastardization of Star Trek

[HotRod]

A newbie joining just to shit on new Star Trek?

Must be a day ending with 'ay'.


Yay.

That's what this thread is about!? Shit, I thought we were talking adult beverages.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I never watched TOS, but there are plenty of other examples that show you're right.



Again, never watched TOS

Then you've really nothing to tell us regarding whether SNW or the rest have departed from the "original path" of Star Trek, have you?

(One of my examples was from TNG, by the way. I guess that didn't register?)

This represents my opinion which is no more or less valid than anyone else's.

OK, then, if "no more or less valid" means completely uninformed, I guess so.

I'm not against a show departing from it's original path, but it at least has to make sense. It at least has to be written well. When you're making episodes for a series as iconic as Star Trek, you need to know what the f* you're doing.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I wasn't trying to say there's a specific right way to write Star Trek. I was saying there is a wrong way

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[Lord Garth]

Now wait, wait. Hold on. To be fair, to be totally fair, there is a wrong way to write Star Trek...

.
.
.

"Threshold"!

So, yeah. Just not what the OP was thinking of.

 

[Vger23]

Star Trek is huge. Like…almost 60 years worth of “huge.”

800 live-action TV episodes from 8 different series spanning 7 different decades.
13 major motion pictures with 3 different casts
Countless books, comics, graphic novels, audio adventures, fan fiction, etc
3 animated series

Honestly, expecting it all to be high-quality, well-written, or even just personally appealing is crazy. It’s natural that there will be chunks of it that won’t appeal to your particular tastes. It’s totally natural.
I think it’s really weird when people get really upset about it and rage against it.

 

[StarMan]

Unlike the majority of fandom, Trek is malleable.

@Greg Cox hit the bullseye on page 1. Should be pinned to the top of the forum.

It may help not to get too hung up on the idea that STAR TREK is supposed to be done one way and no other. And that the TNG-era stuff is somehow the gold standard to which all Trek shows, past and present, must adhere to.

Star Trek is a big umbrella, and that's good thing. Infinite variety and all that.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I never watched TOS

Again, never watched TOS.

Then as far as I'm concerned, you're not remotely qualified to declare what is and isn't "real Star Trek."

 

[Mudd]

Then as far as I'm concerned, you're not remotely qualified to declare what is and isn't "real Star Trek."

Yep.

 

[flandry84]

Civic Holiday in Ontario.

Yup.August bank holiday in Ireland too.

 

[FederationHistorian]

it seemed like all they did with Picard was just exploit viewer nostalgia for TNG.

Technically, that was the whole series.

Strange New Worlds

Again, trying to wrap this up. SNW has had a hell of a lot of potential and for the most part I've really enjoyed it. Last season there was an episode where the crew reenacted the plot for a children's book. It was a bit out there, but the reasoning they used was at least plausible for the show. This last episode nine almost caused me to throw my laptop through a window. It wasn't even stretchably plausible in any way. The only thing that made less sense was their solution to sing a long. The whole thing was so cringy I had to skip over the singing which means the episode for me was about seven minutes long.

I mean, they’ve been trying to get that musical episode off the ground since the TNG days, with the most recent attempt prior to SNW being ENT.

Maybe it says a lot about how both tv and Star Trek has changed that the musical episode finally happened.

When you're making episodes for a series as iconic as Star Trek, you need to know what the f* you're doing.

I absolutely agree.

What evidence do you have that they don't?

Does anyone consider me to be off base here?

After least your not having a go at DIS, which is refreshing.

 

[James Cole]

I obviously haven't seen "that episode". But I did see the Klingon bit here and there on Twitter. New level of cringe.

Makes you appreciate Rick Berman for keeping UPN boy bands off the NX-01

 

[Gov Kodos]

A few points to go over before I begin. This represents my opinion which is no more or less valid than anyone else's. While the title appears inflammatory it conveys thoughts made before I decided to make this post and is not intended to provoke anyone. I'm more than happy and willing to entertain opinions that differ from my own. Finally there is no way to accurately describe my position without giving away spoilers regarding Picard and the latest S02E09 episode of Strange New Worlds (SNW).

I was a 90's kid. I grew up watching TNG and Voyager with a bit of DS9. I still like to rewatch TNG and became excited when new Star Trek series started to come out, ESPECIALLY when the OG Picard came back. The nostalgic elation I felt was only matched by the supreme crash back down to Earth as I watched what I perceived to be the bastardization of the Star Trek canaan, mostly with Picard and SNW.

Picard

When they landed in 21st century Earth you could see the trashed streets and I immediately went, "here we go." Sure enough the "we're trashing our planet" speeches came quick. I'll be the first to defend Star Trek exploring certain viewpoints. TNG was way ahead of it's time addressing things like a maternal society, an androgynous species, and one of my favorite episodes, "Measure of a Man" where they fight for Data to have rights as a sentient being. My problem is in how they did it. Guinan came into the picture and for whatever reason they wrote the episode as if they hadn't met yet. I'm not nitpicking some little detail - not only was it a two part episode but it was a season finale where they went back to the 18th century and met Guinan. In that episode, as in the "future" (TNG) Guinan was eloquent and poised, armed with centuries of experience and wisdom. All of a sudden they have her on a soap box yelling what some call liberal viewpoints (I'm as politically center as it gets). The cringe I felt was pretty epic. I think that's the only point that could inflame some political bias, but my points go far beyond politics.

I'm seeing how long this is getting so I'm going to try and be brief. Q, and the Borg. In one episode they absolutely obliterated two of the best protagonists in the entire canaan. Q was dying and he turned out he just wanted a friend?! The Borg all of a sudden becomes benevolent? Are you f*ing kidding me? Not only is this bad writing, but it completely betrays the history AND the potential for those protagonists. I suppose the Borg can always go bad again, but there's no coming back from Q literally crying on Picard's shoulder.

The series finale of Picard wasn't any better. This is less "bastardization" and more just lazy writing, but it still irritates me. TV shows use clever plot twists and reveals to get the viewer into that, "oooooh, man" feeling, but it seemed like all they did with Picard was just exploit viewer nostalgia for TNG. It was as if every single plot twist or reveal was just them revealing the return of some OG TNG character.

Strange New Worlds

Again, trying to wrap this up. SNW has had a hell of a lot of potential and for the most part I've really enjoyed it. Last season there was an episode where the crew reenacted the plot for a children's book. It was a bit out there, but the reasoning they used was at least plausible for the show. This last episode nine almost caused me to throw my laptop through a window. It wasn't even stretchably plausible in any way. The only thing that made less sense was their solution to sing a long. The whole thing was so cringy I had to skip over the singing which means the episode for me was about seven minutes long.




I'm not against a show departing from it's original path, but it at least has to make sense. It at least has to be written well. When you're making episodes for a series as iconic as Star Trek, you need to know what the f* you're doing. Does anyone consider me to be off base here? Am I the only one that's watched this unfold and thought, "what the hell are they doing?"

There are plenty of reasons to criticize Picard. Not being Star Trek enough isn't remotely one of them. SNW is more refurbished TOS than any series since the original went off the air.

 

[donners22]

I can't even understand what the issue is here. The complaints raised, as I understand them, are:
- Guinan didn't remember Picard (alternate timeline; Time's Arrow hadn't happened)

- Speeches about messing up the planet (hardly new in Trek)

- Borg and Q "betrayed" (Borg were already largely neutered in Voyager, and it turned out this was only a subsection of Borg; Q has been around for 36 years and the actor is in his mid-70s, what "potential" was left?)

- Picard S3 was a nostalgia trip (no shit, that was the whole point of the season - I felt it detracted from it, but plenty of others loved it)

- SNW has had two implausible stories (even if you only watched TNG you saw the likes of Genesis and Rascals - which have rubbish science, and in the case of the latter rubbish in many other aspects IMHO - so I don't see why these provoke such concern).


It's fine to not like any part of Trek - each series has its flaws - but I will never get the "not my Trek" angle.

 

[Rincewiend]

A few points to go over before I begin. This represents my opinion which is no more or less valid than anyone else's. While the title appears inflammatory it conveys thoughts made before I decided to make this post and is not intended to provoke anyone. I'm more than happy and willing to entertain opinions that differ from my own. Finally there is no way to accurately describe my position without giving away spoilers regarding Picard and the latest S02E09 episode of Strange New Worlds (SNW).

I was a 90's kid. I grew up watching TNG and Voyager with a bit of DS9. I still like to rewatch TNG and became excited when new Star Trek series started to come out, ESPECIALLY when the OG Picard came back. The nostalgic elation I felt was only matched by the supreme crash back down to Earth as I watched what I perceived to be the bastardization of the Star Trek canaan, mostly with Picard and SNW.

Picard

When they landed in 21st century Earth you could see the trashed streets and I immediately went, "here we go." Sure enough the "we're trashing our planet" speeches came quick. I'll be the first to defend Star Trek exploring certain viewpoints. TNG was way ahead of it's time addressing things like a maternal society, an androgynous species, and one of my favorite episodes, "Measure of a Man" where they fight for Data to have rights as a sentient being. My problem is in how they did it. Guinan came into the picture and for whatever reason they wrote the episode as if they hadn't met yet. I'm not nitpicking some little detail - not only was it a two part episode but it was a season finale where they went back to the 18th century and met Guinan. In that episode, as in the "future" (TNG) Guinan was eloquent and poised, armed with centuries of experience and wisdom. All of a sudden they have her on a soap box yelling what some call liberal viewpoints (I'm as politically center as it gets). The cringe I felt was pretty epic. I think that's the only point that could inflame some political bias, but my points go far beyond politics.

I'm seeing how long this is getting so I'm going to try and be brief. Q, and the Borg. In one episode they absolutely obliterated two of the best protagonists in the entire canaan. Q was dying and he turned out he just wanted a friend?! The Borg all of a sudden becomes benevolent? Are you f*ing kidding me? Not only is this bad writing, but it completely betrays the history AND the potential for those protagonists. I suppose the Borg can always go bad again, but there's no coming back from Q literally crying on Picard's shoulder.

The series finale of Picard wasn't any better. This is less "bastardization" and more just lazy writing, but it still irritates me. TV shows use clever plot twists and reveals to get the viewer into that, "oooooh, man" feeling, but it seemed like all they did with Picard was just exploit viewer nostalgia for TNG. It was as if every single plot twist or reveal was just them revealing the return of some OG TNG character.

Strange New Worlds

Again, trying to wrap this up. SNW has had a hell of a lot of potential and for the most part I've really enjoyed it. Last season there was an episode where the crew reenacted the plot for a children's book. It was a bit out there, but the reasoning they used was at least plausible for the show. This last episode nine almost caused me to throw my laptop through a window. It wasn't even stretchably plausible in any way. The only thing that made less sense was their solution to sing a long. The whole thing was so cringy I had to skip over the singing which means the episode for me was about seven minutes long.




I'm not against a show departing from it's original path, but it at least has to make sense. It at least has to be written well. When you're making episodes for a series as iconic as Star Trek, you need to know what the f* you're doing. Does anyone consider me to be off base here? Am I the only one that's watched this unfold and thought, "what the hell are they doing?"

 

[HotRod]

I obviously haven't seen "that episode".

Of course you haven't. You wouldn't dare allow yourself to experience a fun, creative, and immensely enjoyable episode of Star Trek.

New level of cringe.

Nope.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I love how it's become 'that' episode.

Wait, did I say love? I meant a different word... what was it?

I obviously haven't seen "that episode". But I did see the Klingon bit here and there on Twitter. New level of cringe.

Makes you appreciate Rick Berman for keeping UPN boy bands off the NX-01

You could complain to your buddies on Youtube about it. They might actually care about what you think.

 

[Mudd]

The yowling about this show on social media like YouTube is the death rattle of a certain strain of fandom.

Not that anyone will pipe down. After all, there are still trekkies who hold that only TOS-based material with the original cast is any good. It just stopped mattering about thirty years ago.

 

[wayoung]

C’mon bro…what is this, amateur hour? S’mores and pina coladas….?!?

Not my place, not my drinks, and s'mores are always awesome.

 

[HotRod]

Not my place, not my drinks, and s'mores are always awesome.

Thanks to you, I went to bed wanting S'mores!

Today, there may be a trip to the grocery store...

 

[Vger23]

Not my place, not my drinks, and s'mores are always awesome.

Fair points all around, I suppose.