The Bad Science of Voyager

[TommyR01D]

ISS Einstein recently attempted to start a thread about bad science in Discovery. By my observation, it hasn't gone well - more than a hundred posts and the discussion hasn't gotten off the ground.

I will attempt similar threads for each of the other series in turn, where members can list what they think are the most egregious examples of bad science in the franchise.

To prevent this from going off course, I will lay down a few constraints from the start:

• No dismissals of the premise of the thread: Yes, we know it's a TV show. Yes, we know it's science fiction. If that meant details weren't worth dissecting then there would be little point in having a forum at all.
  
• Transporters, warp speed, and lots of inhabited planets are an obvious necessity for Star Trek to work. You can point out specific instances of them being used badly or their implications being misunderstood, but the simple fact of their existence is off-limits for this discussion.

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The first, and probably most obvious entry, is the notorious Threshold.
Even before we get to the the goal-oriented human evolution, there is the stupidity of "Infinite Speed". The Cochrane takes several seconds to accelerate up to Warp 10, then several more seconds to pass beyond Voyager's sensors, but when the engines are switched off it ends up right back where it started. Later on, another blast at infinite speed leaves the shuttle only a few days away at normal warp.

The writers didn't seem to understand what "infinite" actually meant.

 

[MacLeod]

Let's face it speed in ST has always been at the needs of the plot rather than adhering to any scale.

The writers also need to check on the definition of sustainable as we are told Voyager has a sustainable cruise velocity of Warp 9.975. It obviously doesn't if it can only hold that speed for a few hours it isn't sustainable.

 

[Delta Vega]

Theres probably bad science in every version of Trek
It's just whatever the writers need to push a story on that matters

 

[Spot261]

Plot.

Q has been using infinite speed since TNG.

 

[at Quark's]

Theres probably bad science in every version of Trek
It's just whatever the writers need to push a story on that matters

True, but for example in the case of Threshold, a lot of the bad science wasn't inevitable. For example, why infinite speed? They could as well have gone with any ludicrous speed with this side effect. Or the entire evolution thing... they could have told exactly the same story had they said that being in the transwarp domain and the plot-o-metric particles had interacted and resulted in unforeseen body changes. Just as ludicrous and unscientific, but at least you're not misinterpreting evolution.

 

[Lynx]

ISS Einstein recently attempted to start a thread about bad science in Discovery. By my observation, it hasn't gone well - more than a hundred posts and the discussion hasn't gotten off the ground.

I will attempt similar threads for each of the other series in turn, where members can list what they think are the most egregious examples of bad science in the franchise.

To prevent this from going off course, I will lay down a few constraints from the start:

• No dismissals of the premise of the thread: Yes, we know it's a TV show. Yes, we know it's science fiction. If that meant details weren't worth dissecting then there would be little point in having a forum at all.
  
• Transporters, warp speed, and lots of inhabited planets are an obvious necessity for Star Trek to work. You can point out specific instances of them being used badly or their implications being misunderstood, but the simple fact of their existence is off-limits for this discussion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first, and probably most obvious entry, is the notorious Threshold.
Even before we get to the the goal-oriented human evolution, there is the stupidity of "Infinite Speed". The Cochrane takes several seconds to accelerate up to Warp 10, then several more seconds to pass beyond Voyager's sensors, but when the engines are switched off it ends up right back where it started. Later on, another blast at infinite speed leaves the shuttle only a few days away at normal warp.

The writers didn't seem to understand what "infinite" actually meant.

Honestly, the only way to watch "Threshold" is to imagine that It never happened!

It was just a nightmare Janeway had after eating too much Leola Root stew or drinking too much of Neelix’s coffee. The best evidence for this episode being nothing but a nightmare is the fact that no one ever mentioned the events in the episode in later episodes. I mean, Paris almost dies, turns into a lizard, abducts Janeway who is also turned into a lizard and they have lizard “children” and no one talks about it or jokes about it later!

If I'm correct, the Enterprise did travel at warp 10 in the episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" and none of the crewmembers were turned into a lizard so "Threshold" was nothing more than a nightmare.

 

[at Quark's]

If I'm correct, the Enterprise did travel at warp 10 in the episode "Where No One Has Gone Before" and none of the crewmembers were turned into a lizard so "Threshold" was nothing more than a nightmare.

LaForge mentions they're passing warp 10, whatever that means exactly.

 

[Lynx]

LaForge mentions they're passing warp 10, whatever that means exactly.

And he didn't become a lizard!
Now wait......he did become something lizard-like in "Identity Crisis".
But I guess it had nothing to do with passing the "Threshold"!

 

[Discofan]

I think the worst in Voyager concerning bad science are things that don't make any sense. Like a species that sleeps all the time!! I mean who feed them!! How do they reproduce? Who bathe them!! The head of the "sleepers" talks about the bodies of the Voyager crew decaying and all that but what about HIS and His people's bodies??? The problem with Voyager is that there are episodes like that, that you're supposed to watch with your brain shut down!!

 

[TommyR01D]

My next example: The reverse-aging Drayans in Innoncence.
Right at the end of the episode, it gets thrown at us that the obnoxious children who have pestered Tuvok and then disappeared are actually their species' geriatrics, because apparently their ageing process goes the opposite way to ours. We have to assume that Drayans are born looking like human grandparents, then mature into young adults, then decay into infants, all before they go to the magic moon cave and disintegrate into pure energy. Somehow, this last step does not cause a massive explosion.

 

[Discofan]

My next example: The reverse-aging Drayans in Innoncence.
Right at the end of the episode, it gets thrown at us that the obnoxious children who have pestered Tuvok and then disappeared are actually their species' geriatrics, because apparently their ageing process. We have to assume that Drayans are born looking like human grandparents, then mature into young adults, then decay into infants, all before they go to the magic moon cave and disintegrate into pure energy. Somehow, this last step does not cause a massive explosion.

There's another problem, with only four "aged" Drayans dying in about one day that makes a total population of about a hundred thousand. That's not a lot of people for a so-called civilization! By comparison, two hundred thousand people die on Earth every day!

 

[Kor]

True, but for example in the case of Threshold, a lot of the bad science wasn't inevitable. For example, why infinite speed? They could as well have gone with any ludicrous speed with this side effect. Or the entire evolution thing... they could have told exactly the same story had they said that being in the transwarp domain and the plot-o-metric particles had interacted and resulted in unforeseen body changes. Just as ludicrous and unscientific, but at least you're not misinterpreting evolution.

Why was Warp 10 infinite speed? Because that's how the redesigned warp scale of the TNG era worked.

Kor

 

[uniderth]

Low hanging fruit: Cold Blooded Hadrosaurs.

 

[at Quark's]

Why was Warp 10 infinite speed? Because that's how the redesigned warp scale of the TNG era worked.
Kor

Even TNG itself didn't always seem to adhere to that (remember Geordi's remark they are "passing" warp 10, or the Warp 13 AGT scene, which causes a lot of posters to postulate another warp scale recalibration or all kinds of elaborate schemes to "explain" scenes like this).

And even without those intances, why did Tom need to go warp 10 in the first place? Why couldn't he have gone warp 9.999999874 or something (of course they would have needed a more conventient designation for that ) and tell exactly the same story? Instead of the first pilot to reach warp 10 (which he wasn't, see TNG again), he'd simply have been 'the first pilot reaching transwarp' (well, he wasn't that either, but you get the idea).

 

[Discofan]

Even TNG itself didn't always seem to adhere to that (remember Geordi's remark they are "passing" warp 10, or the Warp 13 AGT scene, which causes a lot of posters to postulate another warp scale recalibration or all kinds of elaborate schemes to "explain" scenes like this).

And even without those intances, why did Tom need to go warp 10 in the first place? Why couldn't he have gone warp 9.999999874 or something (of course they would have needed a more conventient designation for that ) and tell exactly the same story? Instead of the first pilot to reach warp 10 (which he wasn't, see TNG again), he'd simply have been 'the first pilot reaching transwarp' (well, he wasn't that either, but you get the idea).

A lot of things don't make sense in that episode, like how can someone become allergic to water, something that constitutes about 60 percent of his body!!!

 

[at Quark's]

Upon closer reflection, of course, the 'going infinitely fast so you can choose where to drop out at any point in the universe hence you can also end up where you began' (which might still be nonsense in itself though) is of course a bit harder with a finite velocity, but I'm sure a solution could have been found

Having said that, I personally don't care that there are so many bizarre concepts in Threshold - I find the episode entertaining and that's what matters most to me. But since this thread is about discussing such things ….

 

[Discofan]

Upon closer reflection, of course, the 'going infinitely fast so you can choose where to drop out at any point in the universe hence you can also end up where you began' (which might still be nonsense in itself though) is of course a bit harder with a finite velocity, but I'm sure a solution could have been found

Having said that, I personally don't care that there are so many bizarre concepts in Threshold - I find the episode entertaining and that's what matters most to me. But since this thread is about discussing such things ….

Yeah, intuitively, the faster you move the farther you move. Going infinitely fast, someone would end up infinitely far, that is, not anywhere near this galaxy or even nearby galaxies... It would then be infinitely hard to get back to the point of origin as someone doesn't need precision to get away from a place but needs a lot of it to get back to that place, which is why people get lost sometimes.

 

[at Quark's]

^Unless the universe itself is not infinite and folds in on itself in a higher dimension.

 

[Discofan]

^Unless the universe itself is not infinite and folds in on itself in a higher dimension.

Even so, the observable Universe is very big and our galaxy is just a tiny speck in it. If you pick a place in the Universe at random so to speak, chances are it will be very far from here, billions of light years away. Trying to find your galaxy in this mess is much harder than finding a needle in a haystack!!!

 

[Timo]

I see no problem with the Drayan reverse aging thing. Surely this is among the most pleasant ways imaginable to die? And surely an advanced species would arrange for its individuals to die in this manner, then? It shouldn't take too much genetic engineering, compared to what we have seen the primitive Federation already pull off.

No, we don't have to assume the Drayans are born old. Nothing of the sort is even remotely hinted at in the episode. All we learn there is the manner of their death.

As for infinite speed, why stop anywhere short of it? The very point was for the speed to be utterly uncontrollable, unlike all the speeds Tom Paris had previously encountered. Infinite, or at least high enough to see most of the universe in 4.7 seconds, is what carried the plot. And infinitely fast and insanely fast really don't carry different plausibility weights: these stranded heroes would be just as (un)likely to come up with infinitely fast warp as they would to accidentally cobble up an engine that goes merely insanely fast. If it happens, it's already infinitely improbable. Or insanely improbable, there again being no difference.

"Goal-oriented evolution"? What's that? Paris (and later Janeway) just changed - and the EMH specified the mechanism as in no way unnatural, as it is merely the same thing that happened previously when humans or other species changed to match the environment (only it happens to one individual within one generation, thanks to the magic of the new drive). That is, a lot of mutations happen and somehow the lethal ones don't count (perhaps the drive allows Paris to live a zillion lives at once, so the selection process is iterative and the dead Parises don't matter).

The only goal there would be to adapt to the environment (or, in other words, to change so that one isn't too badly in conflict with the requirements of the environment). And what Paris became might be optimal for somebody lounging in a climate-controlled cabin. Or then not too badly in conflict with the requirements of that environment. No distant goal is required there. But describing the process as rapid evolution seems to be valid (with the caveat that it happens to one individual), and it should certainly be possible to calculate that Paris underwent a few million years' worth of it. And it would be a fair estimate to say that humans in the future would adapt to lounging in climate-controlled cabins, even if the EMH says that in full jest.

Why use of the new drive would result in these rapid mutations is the scifi bit left untold. And we have no reason to insist our heroes ought to understand how this happened. But "infinitely/insanely many things happening simultaneously" is certainly a good start there.

Timo Saloniemi