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Spoilers The Bad Batch - Season 1 Discussion [cue A-Team theme music]

Reverend said:
In Zahn's books, Thrawn has a bridge officer straight up decapitated on the spot for a failure to adapt to unorthodox tactics. He was still brutal and cold blooded, he was just calm and polite about it. The only difference between how Zahn treats him vs Zahn is that Zahn is a little too enamoured with his creation and winds up making him a little too Gary Stu-ish. Filloni always remembered that he's supposed to be a villain.

He's not an anti-hero, he's a high functioning savant sociopath.
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Thanks for the info. I can’t speak to any differences, I just watch Star Wars Explained a lot and Alex is constantly talking about how Thrawn is more ruthless and evil in Rebels. I think he cited how Zahn Thrawn would never open fire on Lothal like he did in the finale.:shrug:
 
lightspeedbear said:
Thanks for the info. I can’t speak to any differences, I just watch Star Wars Explained a lot and Alex is constantly talking about how Thrawn is more ruthless and evil in Rebels. I think he cited how Zahn Thrawn would never open fire on Lothal like he did in the finale.:shrug:
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Like I said, in the more recent books, Zahn has developed a habit of contriving to show Thrawn in a more sympathetic light...but then of course unlike Rebel's and the old 'Heir' trilogy, the new novels are told almost entirely from his perspective, so of course one is going to be left with a differing perspective.

As for whether or not Zahn would have written Thrawn opening fire of civilians, only Zahn himself can answer that. Personally I'm going to disagree with Alex on this point; I don't think there's *anything* Thrawn wouldn't do if he felt it necessary. He's more measured, precise and methodical than the likes of Tarkin, who wields violence like a club rather than a scalpel, but he's no less brutal. In this particular case I think that Zahn would have contrived a different outcome, but that's more about the author than the character.
 
I think Thrawn would follow orders.

I haven't read any of Timothy Zahn's books set in the new continuity, but in the EU (at least in his original trilogy) Thrawn was in command and didn't take orders from anyone.
 
Turtletrekker said:
I think Thrawn would follow orders.

I haven't read any of Timothy Zahn's books set in the new continuity, but in the EU (at least in his original trilogy) Thrawn was in command and didn't take orders from anyone.
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Yeah, though mostly because by the Heir novels, the Emperor was already dead (ish) and all the other senior Imperial figures of note had either been killed, captured, turned warlord or otherwise taken off the board. In Rebels, the Emperor was very much there and in charge. He told his Grand Admiral to bring Lothal to heel, and that's what he intended to do. He chose bombardment not because he was bloodthirsty, but because he knew that compassion was the one thing that gave him reliable leverage over that whole group or rebels. Had he been facing say, Saw Gerrera he would have taken a different tack as Saw would let the city burn if it meant achieving his ends.

On the other hand, having a mind of his own and not blindly following orders is part of what got him "exiled" in the first place. The Chiss are kinda hot on regimented obedience. So take what you will from that.
 
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Yeah not big on turning villians into sympathetic figures, or anti heroes, sometimes people have a moral flexabilty to say, what I'm doing is correct, in my mind. They know its iffy on a moral grounds of say no murder, etc, but they see it as an okay strategy.
 
lightspeedbear said:
Thanks for the info. I can’t speak to any differences, I just watch Star Wars Explained a lot and Alex is constantly talking about how Thrawn is more ruthless and evil in Rebels. I think he cited how Zahn Thrawn would never open fire on Lothal like he did in the finale.:shrug:
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Thrawn will do anything if he sees tactical value in it. What he won't do is arbitrarily kill people for shits and giggles like Vader would. So while Thrawn might not make a public display of killing people just to prove he can, he will gladly knowingly obliterate an elementary school and retirement home if that was necessary to winning the battle.
 
valkyrie013 said:
Yeah not big on turning villians into sympathetic figures, or anti heroes, sometimes people have a moral flexabilty to say, what I'm doing is correct, in my mind. They know its iffy on a moral grounds of say no murder, etc, but they see it as an okay strategy.
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With Thrawn I think it's less about making him an anti-hero than it is showing that he's a different kind of villain. The Emperor and Vader are straight up evil, they take joy from causing pain and find glee amidst the death and destruction. They make no effort to hide their brutality or their villainy, rather they revel in it. Tarkin is an authoritarian. He will shatter whole worlds if it keeps him in power. His brutality is more focused than the Sith, less for the joy of it and more for impact. But he, also, would never cower from being called evil so long as it works.

Thrawn is a more practical kind of soldier, and thus the more interesting because he's only a villain by circumstance. He himself isn't strictly speaking evil. Amoral, perhaps, at times. He has a code, and there are lines he won't cross lightly, though few he won't cross at all. His principle concern is always victory, though he prides himself on doing it in the most efficient way possible rather than the most brutal. But the cause he has chosen to serve IS evil. Which makes him kind of a fascinating player.

The newer Thrawn novels get around it by setting them pre-Empire. So Thrawn can be straight up heroic. Or at least anti-heroic. It's really been interesting to see all the same traits and skills which will make him such a cunning foe for the rebellion be employed strictly to the benefit of the Chiss, his people. He still is perfectly capable of extreme violence, but we don't oppose his cause so it's easier to appreciate what he's doing.
 
The Wormhole said:
Thrawn will do anything if he sees tactical value in it. What he won't do is arbitrarily kill people for shits and giggles like Vader would. So while Thrawn might not make a public display of killing people just to prove he can, he will gladly knowingly obliterate an elementary school and retirement home if that was necessary to winning the battle.
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Not to derail, but I don't think Vader ever kills for "shits and giggles". He's very direct and purposeful. He sees people as things, no different than droids and their only value to him is the function they can perform. If one fails him, he disposes of it and has it replaced. Trooper or droid, Admiral or hyperdrive motivator, Inquisitor or prosthetic arm. It's all the same. They will do his will or he'll tear them out and get another.

Thrawn is similar in the sense that he also sees people primarily as assets to be used. The key difference is that Thrawn thinks to serve something bigger than himself, and approaches it from a cold, detached, dispassionate point of view. While Vader only serves himself (serving the Emperor's will is just self preservation) and is very much attached and passionate about that end. Thrawn is analytical and circumspect, while Vader is focused and direct.
 
The last episode of the season was a bit of a let down after the excitement of last week. It felt like a smaller episode and not a season ender. It was good just not what I expected after the build up.
 
Reverend said:
Let's not go nuts. This is still the guy that thought doubling a vowel in a character's name was a good way to make it clear they were a clone...I mean "Luuke"? Seriously?
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To be fair, he realized how silly that was and apologized.
 
I am glad this first season is "out of the way" - now they can grow as characters and find themselves a new place in the galaxy.
 
Yeah, I was over pre-existing characters appearing in the show pretty quickly. I enjoyed the first season but thought its overreliance on characters outside of the Batch was the season's biggest weakness.
 
True, where I would love the show to stand on its own, its place in the timeline however precludes it from being totally devoid of cameos, mentions, etc. The Empire is being built in the background, and its a story worth being told, though no one has asked for it, like Solo movie..
 
Campe said:
Yeah, I was over pre-existing characters appearing in the show pretty quickly. I enjoyed the first season but thought its overreliance on characters outside of the Batch was the season's biggest weakness.
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Agreed. I am not a big fan of Clone characters but this first season didn't help the process of investing in the main players in favor of familiar secondaries.

Not sold yet. Omega almost did but not enough.
 
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