The Arguments made in the Episode Sanctuary, The Skrreea on Bajor?
- Thread starter Mordwyn Fen-Dweller
- Start date
If the Skrreeans being an "unknown race" is a reason for the Bajorans to not allow them to settle, then it's a reason that I find a bit contemptible.
Also a subtle whiff of a zombie thread...
But Bajor might be on the verge of a precedent here. Star travel in Trek appears quite cheap, and the vast Skreean fleet proves that point nicely enough. If Bajor lets in one displaced group of that size, others might soon follow - and once that gets going, soon there will be no option other than to napalm a lot of babies to keep the place from getting overwhelmed. It's explicitly not a place with room for entire extra planetfuls, after all. And the Skreeans being "unknown" might indeed be factually highly significant there: Alpha species might already know how to behave themselves, but Gamma ones would only ever see Bajor when emerging from the wormhole.
On the other hand, closing the doors of Bajor is not a major crime against common courtesy or humanity or whatever. Anybody capable of reaching Bajor is y default capable of reaching paradise, too, simply by sailing a few days or weeks farther. Again something made explicit in the episode.
Timo Saloniemi
But Bajor might be on the verge of a precedent here. Star travel in Trek appears quite cheap, and the vast Skreean fleet proves that point nicely enough. If Bajor lets in one displaced group of that size, others might soon follow - and once that gets going, soon there will be no option other than to napalm a lot of babies to keep the place from getting overwhelmed. It's explicitly not a place with room for entire extra planetfuls, after all. And the Skreeans being "unknown" might indeed be factually highly significant there: Alpha species might already know how to behave themselves, but Gamma ones would only ever see Bajor when emerging from the wormhole.
On the other hand, closing the doors of Bajor is not a major crime against common courtesy or humanity or whatever. Anybody capable of reaching Bajor is y default capable of reaching paradise, too, simply by sailing a few days or weeks farther. Again something made explicit in the episode.
Timo Saloniemi
Why wouldn't Bajor be aware of that? The Skreeans are war refugees. The mysterious Dominion is driving this new "invasion of barbarians", by the very account of said barbarians. What happens here is not something unique to the Skreeans, quite the opposite.
The Bajorans would be morally suspect if they failed to formulate a strategy that can actually help the incoming future refugees.
Timo Saloniemi
The Bajorans would be morally suspect if they failed to formulate a strategy that can actually help the incoming future refugees.
Timo Saloniemi
As outlined in the ep, this was neither a "Sorry, the lifeboat is full, if you try to come aboard I have to put a bullet through your head" situation, nor a "Keep off my nice lawn, you filthy bleeding victim of a traffic accident, or I'll put a bullet through your head" one, but something in between. Bajor was in no danger of sinking (yet), but neither were the Skreeans. Both sides could choose on a level of politeness at their leisure. And, again, neither chose an extremity there.
"Go find somewhere else" isn't what Bajor did, though. They said "Welcome, here are your new homes - the first hundred ships go left, the next hundred right, two lightyears to go."
Timo Saloniemi
"Go find somewhere else" isn't what Bajor did, though. They said "Welcome, here are your new homes - the first hundred ships go left, the next hundred right, two lightyears to go."
Timo Saloniemi
I'll grant it's possible I'm misremembering the episode, but I recall the Skreeans being outright rejected, and Memory Alpha appears to state the same thing:
"Haneek insists that the Bajoran Provisional Government be petitioned to let the Skrreeans immigrate there. After a debate to consider the Skrreeans' request, the government in the end denies them, for fear that Bajor's problems will both worsen due to and spread to the Skrreeans. Minister Rozahn and Vedek Sorad travel to DS9 to give the response in person. Varani catches up with Kira beforehand, presuming to know the response, and asks Kira to relay his regret at the eventual denial to Haneek.
In Sisko's office, Rozahn diplomatically explains that, despite Haneek's assurance that they don't need the Bajorans' help, and that their projections on their future growth could be wrong, the government states the risk is too high. Should the Skrreeans need help, the Bajorans cannot deny them, and they simply don't have the resources to do so. Furthermore, the land is not guaranteed to be able to be farmed. Haneek is disheartened, and turns to Kira for support, but Kira states she agrees with the government."
"Haneek insists that the Bajoran Provisional Government be petitioned to let the Skrreeans immigrate there. After a debate to consider the Skrreeans' request, the government in the end denies them, for fear that Bajor's problems will both worsen due to and spread to the Skrreeans. Minister Rozahn and Vedek Sorad travel to DS9 to give the response in person. Varani catches up with Kira beforehand, presuming to know the response, and asks Kira to relay his regret at the eventual denial to Haneek.
In Sisko's office, Rozahn diplomatically explains that, despite Haneek's assurance that they don't need the Bajorans' help, and that their projections on their future growth could be wrong, the government states the risk is too high. Should the Skrreeans need help, the Bajorans cannot deny them, and they simply don't have the resources to do so. Furthermore, the land is not guaranteed to be able to be farmed. Haneek is disheartened, and turns to Kira for support, but Kira states she agrees with the government."
But how is that "rejection"? The Skreeans were readily offered new homes. They just didn't happen to be on Bajor.
It's a weird proposition to begin with. These folks want things beyond survival. One thing of importance appears to be sticking together as a culture, complete with the farming ways of that culture - otherwise, there would have been no issue whatsoever with them simply becoming citizens of the nearest fifty UFP planets.
So why undermine that by becoming tenants of the Bajorans? Surely the Skreeans would be in better control of their destiny on a planet of their very own.
It almost seems as if the Skreeans have a fetish about being serfs to suitable masters. With the T-Rogorans gone, perhaps these Minions are looking for new oppressors first and foremost?
Timo Saloniemi
It's a weird proposition to begin with. These folks want things beyond survival. One thing of importance appears to be sticking together as a culture, complete with the farming ways of that culture - otherwise, there would have been no issue whatsoever with them simply becoming citizens of the nearest fifty UFP planets.
So why undermine that by becoming tenants of the Bajorans? Surely the Skreeans would be in better control of their destiny on a planet of their very own.
It almost seems as if the Skreeans have a fetish about being serfs to suitable masters. With the T-Rogorans gone, perhaps these Minions are looking for new oppressors first and foremost?
Timo Saloniemi
True, but since I missed it and it seems to be generating more discussion, I'll let it slide this time.
Let's all try and remember thread resurrection rules though folks!
Exactly. Wasn't so long ago that the Bajorans themselves were refugees. They can't be expected to give aid to others so soon, because Bajor itself was in such a shambles at that point. Bajor has to recover from the occupation before it can start welcoming outsiders.
Sure, Haneek said that her people were farmers, but who's to say whether their style of farming would even work on Bajor? The Skrreeans had never even been to Bajor before. They have no idea what the planet is like, what the Bajoran ecosystem (what's left of it) is, or anything like that.
Bajor didn't turn down the Skrreeans because they didn't like them. They did it because Bajor simply can't sustain them at this point. It would be like, if half of your house is destroyed in a fire, and people you've never met before ask to crash in what's left of your living room, can you afford to do that?
Last edited:
We don't really know whether Bajor could have sustained the Skrreeans or whether their farming methods would have worked because the reality is they were never given a chance to try. Now perhaps the risk was too great, which is a fair assessment, but I also feel like the constraints of the episode force an unrealistic resolution. To me, it would make more sense to let a small number of Skrreeans settle provisionally on Bajor to see whether they knew what they were on about. If so, awesome. If not, then the Skrreeans will have empirical evidence that Bajor was right to ask them to settle elsewhere. And if the Skrreeans aren't willing to accept that compromise, then it's on them, but at least it would make the Bajorans look a little more sympathetic.
As noted, the Bajorans were essentially refugees themselves, so you'd think they might show fellow refugees a bit more compassion (hard realities notwithstanding). Though I guess I wonder whether there's historical precedent for that one way or another.
All that said, there was also an element of Bajor being a "promised land" for the Skrreeans, and I have to admit I wonder how well some subsets of humanity would take it if they thought they'd found their own promised land only to be told "yeah, we don't want you here", reasons notwithstanding. Isn't that essentially how the Crusades started?
As noted, the Bajorans were essentially refugees themselves, so you'd think they might show fellow refugees a bit more compassion (hard realities notwithstanding). Though I guess I wonder whether there's historical precedent for that one way or another.
All that said, there was also an element of Bajor being a "promised land" for the Skrreeans, and I have to admit I wonder how well some subsets of humanity would take it if they thought they'd found their own promised land only to be told "yeah, we don't want you here", reasons notwithstanding. Isn't that essentially how the Crusades started?
I totally agree.
Not to mention that there were other planets where the Skreeans could settle.
Fairly often, DS9 goes for the maximally generic setup even when lift... uh, adapting specific stories from specific contexts such as the Nazi occupation of France. Here, the setup is exceptionally restrictive, though, with the Holy Land element so central to it all, and the Skreeans-as-intolerable-assholes portrayal in the forefront to guide our perceptions. It's not commentary on refugees or hospitality in general, but a specific story about...
...Well, about immigration to an already taken Holy Land. Which is a relatively rare occurrence in world history (powerful armies invading already taken Holy Lands is a very different thing), and would thus seem to be a highly specific reference to the immigration that resulted in the state of Israel being reborn. Which is sort of unusual in Trek and its deliberately generic allegories.
Good for the drama? Bad for the drama? I feel it's external to the drama at hand, but uncomfortably and perhaps needlessly weighs upon it - are we really supposed to think in terms of ugly, rude Jews and polite, cowardly Palestinians or what?
Timo Saloniemi
...Well, about immigration to an already taken Holy Land. Which is a relatively rare occurrence in world history (powerful armies invading already taken Holy Lands is a very different thing), and would thus seem to be a highly specific reference to the immigration that resulted in the state of Israel being reborn. Which is sort of unusual in Trek and its deliberately generic allegories.
Good for the drama? Bad for the drama? I feel it's external to the drama at hand, but uncomfortably and perhaps needlessly weighs upon it - are we really supposed to think in terms of ugly, rude Jews and polite, cowardly Palestinians or what?
Timo Saloniemi
Similar threads
