The Answer to the William Shatner dilemma ...

[Trekster]

Just cast Shatner to be play Kirk's father/Grandfather. Case Closed.

You please Shatner (at this point it seems he'll take any part no matter how small) and you avoid all the continuity problems and any "Kirk is dead but wait!!he's alive in the nexus" blah blah blah hokey explanations"

Please people , one thing we don’t need is any more "BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!"

We don’t need to “STUDY, STUDY,STUDY” any lame continuity loophole that would make even Trek’s canon police to work overtime to solve…

Just give us a GOOD film. If they can’t do a GOOD film with an older Kirk than so be it.

 

[Dale]

Shatner in the film as anyone other than James T. would merely be a distraction. Bad idea, bonk bonk on the head!

 

[Trekster]

^^^ I'd agree with you if he was playing anyone other than a close relative of Kirk's. I'm not saying Shatner should be a token andorian on the ship. Kirk's father has some prominance to it.

It's better than nothing. He would have some good scenes with Chris Pine in a "passing the torch" sort of way

Much like Superman's father (Marlon Brando) had with his son..

 

[Supervisor 194]

No one but hardcore fanatics would have a 'problem' with the events of a marginally successful film from 1994 having to be reconciled with the new film. Certainly not the audience Para is looking for.

Casting Shatner as anyone other than Old Kirk is also a non-starter---too much of a distraction as has already been stated.

The answer to the dilemma is whatever J.J. & crew decide (though Cogley's 'Boston Legal' style ending could be brilliant).

 

[Dale]

Trekster said:
^^^ I'd agree with you if he was playing anyone other than a close relative of Kirk's. I'm not saying Shatner should be a token andorian on the ship. Kirk's father has some prominance to it.

It's better than nothing. He would have some good scenes with Chris Pine in a "passing the torch" sort of way

Much like Superman's father (Marlon Brando) had with his son..

I can see it. I don't want to, but I can.

My preference would be James T. Kirk or nothing. Imagine if Steve Reeves had played Jor-El to Christopher Reeve's Superman (yes, I know he was long dead at the time)... or if Adam West had played the father to young Bruce Wayne... homage-as-distraction... cameo of chaos.

 

[Therin of Andor]

leadprophet said:
Imagine if Steve Reeves had played Jor-El to Christopher Reeve's Superman (yes, I know he was long dead at the time)...

You mean George Reeves?

But those people on the train, passing through Smallville, with young Lois Lane aboard (in the extended edition of "Superman: The Movie") are Kirk Alyn and Noel Neil, the original Superman and Lois from the old b/w serials.

"Superman Returns" also featured Noel Neil again, as the old millionairess, and Jack Larson (50s TV's Jimmy Olsen) serving drinks to the new Jimmy.

Nimoy and Shatner have had "favored nations" contracts since ST:TMP. What one receives the other must get. If Nimoy has already signed for one amount - and he has - Shatner must agree to accept that equal amount, even for a cameo. Or, if the studio did agree to more $$$ to secure Shatner, then Nimoy must get a pay rise... and bang goes the cast budget for ST XI. ;-)

Shatner has stated on his website, "I don't do cameos". So his expectation is that he would want Old Kirk to be a significant character throughout ST XI. (And Nimoy's reason for turning down "Generations" was that he wanted Spock to be a significant character throughout; Nichelle Nichols' reason for turning down "Flashback" for VOY was that she wanted Uhura to be a significant character throughout, not just on a viewscreen.)

The script has already been written to include Old Spock, Young Spock and Young Kirk, so it becomes a major story revision to give Old Kirk any role that is more than a fleeting cameo, especially since they'd also have to explain how Old Kirk (now Even Older and Fatter Kirk) was resurrected from the dead. So Shatner has probably painted himself in a corner - ST XI can't afford him, and his demands require major script revisions.

Similarly, that is also why he never ended up appearing in ENT, despite the promising negotiations.

 

[Dale]

Therin of Andor said:

leadprophet said:
Imagine if Steve Reeves had played Jor-El to Christopher Reeve's Superman (yes, I know he was long dead at the time)...

You mean George Reeves?

Indeed I did. Well, that's embarassing... the line from RHPS's "Sweet Transvestite" was going through my head as I was writing: "...we could take in an old... Steve Reeves movie." I hope my point is not lost through the blunder, however.

Lois Lane and Jimmy Olson are peripherals... Superman is an epic hero. The same goes for Jim Kirk. I just think it'd be a distraction. I could intellectualize "that's not Jim Kirk" as I watched Shatner act out another role in a Star Trek film, but my heart would see the hero I grew up with. Hence the distraction. Plus we didn't watch Kirk Alyn, Noel Neil or Jack Larson play the same role over and over again for forty-odd years. Have any other actors ever been married to their characters the way Shatner and Nimoy have been?

 

[Therin of Andor]

leadprophet said:
Plus we didn't watch... Noel Neil or Jack Larson play the same role over and over again for forty-odd years. Have any other actors ever been married to their characters the way Shatner and Nimoy have been?

Huh? Ask Noel Neil and Jack Larson if they feel married to their roles. Easily 40 years of typecasting and syndication. "Adventures of Superman" had an amazing run in syndication, long before Star Trek was considered a success.

It'll be interesting to see whether movie-goers accept a new Maxwell Smart in the upcoming "Get Smart" movie. But there are many TV characters who are "married" to certain actors; Kirk and Spock aren't unique there at all.

 

[Jon1701]

I could have seen him as George Kirk had Nimoy not played Old Spock.

Would have worked then. Not now.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Old Spock shouldn't be in the movie, ya ask me.

 

[SeamusShameless]

Shatner's belly-aching is starting to get annoying. He's not willing to sway on the, "I don't do cameoes," bit, so he's really kind of digging himself into a hole. No offense to The Shat, but most people my age don't know him as any more than a fat old guy who used to be Captain Kirk.

 

[Franklin]

I'm getting to the point where I wish Shatner would just finally yell, "Feel sorry for me." I think it's what he wants. Have a catharsis and get over it.

I have this picture of a tuxedoed Nimoy stepping out onto the red carpet to flashing light bulbs on the movie's premiere night, while Shatner is at home alone sitting in a dark room, wearing a robe and holding a snifter of brandy while melancholy music plays in the background.
Nimoy smiles to the cameras as he walks into the theatre. Cut to Shatner as a tear goes down his cheek.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Therin of Andor said:
Nimoy and Shatner have had "favored nations" contracts since ST:TMP. What one receives the other must get. If Nimoy has already signed for one amount - and he has - Shatner must agree to accept that equal amount, even for a cameo. Or, if the studio did agree to more $$$ to secure Shatner, then Nimoy must get a pay rise... and bang goes the cast budget for ST XI. ;-)

The "favored nations" bit is a negotiations tactic, nothing more.

There's no such thing as a contract which governs each and every project in the same way. Each contract must be negotiated separately, so the "favored nations" policy is only effective as long as Nimoy and Shatner are on the same page when they approach the negotiation table, each and every time.

So for Trek XI, if they needed Nimoy for a larger part, and Shatner for a smaller part, the parties involved could arrange for any fee arrangement that mutually satisfied everyone.

I initially thought that Shatner wouldn't be in the movie, but the more time goes by, the more I believe he will be in it.

Doth he protest too much?

Boston Legal-style Ending, baby! :thumbsup:

 

[Christopher]

leadprophet said:
Imagine if [George] Reeves had played Jor-El to Christopher Reeve's Superman (yes, I know he was long dead at the time)... or if Adam West had played the father to young Bruce Wayne... homage-as-distraction... cameo of chaos.

Things like this have been done a number of times before. The paralyzed Christopher Reeve played a significant recurring character on Smallville prior to his death, and Margot Kidder later played a colleague of his. Dean Cain (Superman from Lois and Clark) recently played a villain on the show, and Helen Slater (the movie Supergirl) is set to appear as Lara, Clark's biological mother. On top of which, Jor-El has been played by the voice of Terence Stamp (Zod from Superman II) for most of the run of the series.

Meanwhile, Adam West played the voice of Bruce Wayne's childhood hero in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series and the voice of the mayor of Gotham City on The Batman.

Recently in SciFi's Flash Gordon, a significant guest role was played by Sam J. Jones, star of the 1980 Flash Gordon feature film. Similarly, Buster Crabbe, who had played Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers in '40s serials, guest-starred in an episode of the 1980s Buck Rogers TV series.

And let's not forget Richard Hatch's recurring role as Tom Zarek in the new Battlestar Galactica. Far from a one-time gimmick, he's become a major part of the saga, and a much more interesting character than he played as the lead of the original show.


Although my point is just that this sort of thing is done all the time, not that I necessarily want to see it in this case. I'd be happy if Shatner just did "Space, the final frontier" one more time. Although it's unlikely he'd settle for just that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It'd be fine if Shatner played Kirk's grandfather (I think he's a bit old to be playing Kirk's father). With the right kind of stage makeup he wouldn't have to look exactly the same as he did when playing Kirk.

George Takei also wants to be in the film, probably as Admiral Nogura (from TMP), and I wouldn't see a problem with that either.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Geez...if they are gonna put the whole remaining TOS cast into the film, why even bother to HAVE a film about anyone else?

You put Shatner, Nimoy and Takei into this film, it's gonna be more about them than about whatever this film was supposed to be about.

Nimoy I'm cool with, because Nimoy isn't an attention whore. But the other two???

Well....not so much.

Shatner has found a very good niche for himself on Boston Legal....playing, essentially, himself.

Why can't he just be happy with that?

 

[T'Cal]

Screw Shatner, I say. he was foolish enough to let Berman kill off Kirk in GEN. You're dead, Jim!! Live with it, Mr. Crane!

 

[Brutal Strudel]

PKTrekGirl said:
Geez...if they are gonna put the whole remaining TOS cast into the film, why even bother to HAVE a film about anyone else?

You put Shatner, Nimoy and Takei into this film, it's gonna be more about them than about whatever this film was supposed to be about.

Nimoy I'm cool with, because Nimoy isn't an attention whore. But the other two???

Well....not so much.

Shatner has found a very good niche for himself on Boston Legal....playing, essentially, himself.

Why can't he just be happy with that?

I think he's wonderful as the Price Line Negotiator.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ See???!!! Success everywhere you turn! :thumbsup:

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I'm serious. I get a kick every time I see him put the moves on the desk clerk or taser that kid's dad or call that guy "namby-pamby!"

I can't stomach Boston Legal.