The Americans is Delightful.

[Greg Cox]

Honestly, I don't think Paige is going to be killing anyone anytime soon. She's just not wired that way, self-defense classes aside, and I think she's still in deep denial about just how far her parents are willing to go to accomplish their missions. She knows they spy on people, she knows they deceive people, she knows they're all about obtaining top-secret info for Mother Russia, but there are still some shoes that haven't fully dropped yet.

I'm not sure she's even really grasped that Mom and Dad routinely have sex with other people, let alone that they kill innocent people sometimes. She may understand, abstractly, that her parents are breaking the law and doing some shady stuff, but that's a long way from her accepting assassination as a possible option.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Honestly, I don't think Paige is going to be killing anyone anytime soon. She's just not wired that way, self-defense classes aside, and I think she's still in deep denial about just how far her parents are willing to go to accomplish their missions. She knows they spy on people, she knows they deceive people, she knows they're all about obtaining top-secret info for Mother Russia, but there still some shoes that haven't fully dropped yet.

I'm not sure she's even really grasped that Mom and Dad routinely have sex with other people, let alone that they kill innocent people sometimes. She may understand, abstractly, that her parents are breaking the law and doing some shady stuff, but that's a long way from her accepting assassination as a possible option.

Good points.

Her parents must think she's still at a fragile stage, because they didn't tell her the truth about the grain and still let her keep on believing the lie.

As for not being wired for violence, I would agree, but I was thinking that she surely pushed Matthew hard, in an explosive and reckless way. That's a new sort of reaction from her. It made me wonder, just how far would she go when she's under pressure to make a choice but doesn't really know what the right thing to do is?

 

[Greg Cox]

I can see her conceivably killing Matthew, possibly by accident, in a moment of panic--if, say, he's dialing the FBI right in front of her and she has to stop him right this very minute--but she's a long way from a committing a cold-blooded assassination for a cause she's only just now learning about.

 

[urbandefault]

I just finished bingeing the first four seasons. Looking forward to season 5.

 

[Captain Shaw]

I'm thinking Paige is going to have to kill Matthew at some point. Or use him for some nefarious purpose. Or kill Pastor Tim. Kill someone anyway.


So was that one shot of Martha in the grocery store it? Are we not going to see any more of her? I'd certainly like to know how her life is going.

I know the actress is in feud at the moment, maybe she was busy when this season was being shot?

 

[1001001]

I'm not sure she's even really grasped that Mom and Dad routinely have sex with other people, let alone that they kill innocent people sometimes. She may understand, abstractly, that her parents are breaking the law and doing some shady stuff, but that's a long way from her accepting assassination as a possible option.

Remember earlier in the series when they flashed back to their training, where they had to get desensitized to having sex with anyone?

Can you imagine them putting Paige through that? For the cause?

I don't think so.

Gabriel's last comment about Paige, something like "She shouldn't be involved in this" or something to that effect....maybe the whole thing is leading the other direction.

 

[urbandefault]

Remember earlier in the series when they flashed back to their training, where they had to get desensitized to having sex with anyone?

Can you imagine them putting Paige through that? For the cause?

I don't think so.

Gabriel's last comment about Paige, something like "She shouldn't be involved in this" or something to that effect....maybe the whole thing is leading the other direction.

I was thinking about the training scenes as I read through the posts. I can't imagine Elizabeth going along with it unless she is so brainwashed that she doesn't see the psychological damage it could do to Paige. Philip definitely sees it, but might ultimately give in for the cause. He has regrets about what he's done, going back to his childhood.

Philip asked Elizabeth if she ever thought about the training and she said no, but that it must be different for men. Possibly what she was required to do was so damaging that she's blocked the memories?

A few episodes back in S4 I wondered if Paige might kill the pastor if he became a threat to her family.

 

[Greg Cox]

Remember earlier in the series when they flashed back to their training, where they had to get desensitized to having sex with anyone?

Can you imagine them putting Paige through that? For the cause?.

Hard to conceive, although I can almost see Elizabeth gritting her teeth and going along with it , maybe even trying to guilt Paige into it.

"Stop whining. It's not pretty, but we all had to do it. Me, your father . . . . now it's your turn."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Remember earlier in the series when they flashed back to their training, where they had to get desensitized to having sex with anyone?

Can you imagine them putting Paige through that? For the cause?

I don't think so.

Philip said something to Paige that resonated with me in terms of that training, something along the lines that "it will get easier" about her breakup. It's not on the scale of the sex training, but it seemed to me like a suggestion that she might have to get used to things like breaking up with people for the good of their profession.

 

[1001001]

I picked up on that too.

 

[Greg Cox]

So what was Gabriel thinking, since he seemed to be sending different messages to Elizabeth and Philip where Paige was concerned? With Elizabeth, he praised Paige's progress, but then he urged Philip to keep Paige away from the spy biz. Did he let his true feelings slip talking to Philip, or did he simply know better than to reveal them to Elizabeth? I can't imagine that he was deliberately trying to set them against each other.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If I had to guess, I'd say that he let his true feelings out.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Digging up dirt (and sometimes manufacturing it) on dissident groups is one of the things that they did. Our own FBI did a lot of stuff regarding domestic dissent that went way beyond simple recon work.

One might say they still do and are just better at hiding it now.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

"Back when Gabriel was shooting people at home, what do you think she was doing?"

While it's still sad that Gabriel is gone, it looks like we'll be seeing Claudia in a more active role as Elizabeth and Philip's handler once again. We were quickly reminded of the frosty relationship Claudia had with the two of them and how it vastly contrasts with their warm relationship with Gabriel (although it's interesting how Elizabeth's solo meeting was slightly more friendlier). She was always the most cunning and terrifying of the three handlers we've seen on the show, and a lot of that comes from Margo Martindale's performance. More of her is always a good thing.

Did we know that Elizabeth was raped when she was 18 or were we to infer during her bedside conversation with Philip that she made it up as a tool to help Paige with controlling and utilizing her fear?

Funny how Philip got dumped by his mark for being "too soft" but now it looks like he's going to turn it back around being more aggressive. I'm betting he toned it down before after how things went with Martha (bring her back!).

I can see her conceivably killing Matthew, possibly by accident, in a moment of panic--if, say, he's dialing the FBI right in front of her and she has to stop him right this very minute--but she's a long way from a committing a cold-blooded assassination for a cause she's only just now learning about.

I definitely can see this happening, especially this particular scenario, but I do agree she's far from committing cold-blooded murder. Maybe over time as Elizabeth grooms her in that direction (with or without Philip's blessing and knowledge), but I don't think we enough time left with the show to see that developing.

 

[E-DUB]

Elizabeth was raped by her trainer. The guy who defected to the West and was killed by them in the very first episode. I thought the whole "Phillip dumping" scene was hysterical.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Elizabeth was raped by her trainer. The guy who defected to the West and was killed by them in the very first episode. I thought the whole "Phillip dumping" scene was hysterical.

Ah, thank you for the reminder. My memory sucks and I clearly need to watch the show again from the start. So much of the first season is merely a blur. Hell, I can't remember the source of the animosity between the two and Claudia other than they didn't see eye to eye.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Claudia staged that fake kidnapping/interrogation of both Philip and Elizabeth back in season 1...I think? I think that's why Elizabeth doesn't like her. Then Elizabeth punched her in the mouth.

 

[marillion]

I thought she beat her up pretty badly, IIRC... Phillip had his deep seeded issues with Gabriel, but there was still respect. Elizabeth has (or at least had) nothing but comtempt for Claudia..

I find it interesting that in both instances, Claudia and Elizabeth/Gabriel and Phillip, that the women are the stronger willed, when it comes to doing the job and working for the Center.. Both Phillip and Gabriel are true believers, but they both have their weaknesses... Claudia and Elizabeth are the truer Soviets...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I find it interesting that in both instances, Claudia and Elizabeth/Gabriel and Phillip, that the women are the stronger willed, when it comes to doing the job and working for the Center.. Both Phillip and Gabriel are true believers, but they both have their weaknesses... Claudia and Elizabeth are the truer Soviets...

I noticed that as well. There was a quiet scene sometime last season between Claudia and Gabriel where the parallels between the two pairs felt rather striking. I almost sensed that the two of them had worked together many years before in a similar way Elizabeth and Philip are now, but that was just a sense. I don't think there's any truth to that supposition.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

OH my god I got the creeps at the end of this episode. I was thinking as I watched Paige and Elizabeth how sad it was that Paige had felt so alienated from her parents and that was what had led to their revelation to her about who they were. And now she's finally bonding with Mom via being seduced into her Mom's world. Yada yada.. and THEN. Elizabeth comes out with this total bullshit about how if she wasn't a spy she'd be a doctor in a third world country where they really need her. You can see on her face she's just thought this up as a way of wooing Paige deeper, the same way she woos her faux lovers she's going to kill, extort or manipulate to her own ends.