The Amazing Spider-Man Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[The Nth Doctor]

One reason why there might be tensions between Webb and the studio is that the film seems to have been reworked significantly shortly before release:

http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/05/was-the-untold-story-cut-from-the-amazing-spider-man/

I noticed some of these things as well as I was watching the film, but they didn't detract from my enjoyment of it too much.

Wow, that was an interesting read. Unfortunately, this doesn't surprise me because I noticed some of those things missing, particularly Peter losing his drive to find Uncle Ben's killer and the mystery behind his parents' death and/or absence, as well as the lack of the Connors' family despite being cast. I am disappointed, however, that the studio (or whoever) decided to do this last minute edit of the film and I agree with the author of the article that it negatively impacts the film (although I would still have some of the issues I talked about in my review).

IGN had this article which speculates about what the end-credits scene means.

I've long championed Mysterio to be the villain so I hope it's him. Electro would be visually interesting as well.

His father is a strong possibility too given that storyline is going to span the next films.

I really hope it doesn't turn out to be Richard Parker because that's a major deviation from the comics but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Peter Parker is an above average high-school student (apparently) going to an Advanced Placement high-school for the science curriculum. (Maybe, it was hard to tell as it was called a "science school" but also had your usual high school shenanigans going on it) and the twitchy, nerdy, outcast.

Really?
So he's what then the King Nerd of all NERDS?
Essentially even the "dumb" jocks at Nerd high are AP student caliber material then?

Until I see it tomorrow I'll reserve full judgement but just this type description piles onto the reasons why you don't tinker with an already perfect origin OR retell it again so soon when it was done so recently and that one adhered so closely to the perfect original origin.

What's the issue, exactly? Peter's supposed to be a great student; that's the kind of school he'd want to go to, if it was available, which it is in major cities.

Anyway, I liked it overall. It was clearly doing some things differently for the sake of being a little different than the first Raimi movie because it's hitting a lot of the same beats, but it gets better as it goes along. Strong acting from the principals (probably better than the original cast, in a number of instances; Martin Sheen, notably, probably also Garfield and Stone), and I can identify a number of things that I like better than Raimi formula that became wearisome over three movies (like not having saving the girl be a major part of the climax, and giving her a bit more of a role; and the little things with Flash were excellent).

It lacks some of the iconic images the first film had, but then, the first film already did those images, so they were working against that from the get-go.

 

[Trekker4747]

What's the issue, exactly? Peter's supposed to be a great student; that's the kind of school he'd want to go to, if it was available, which it is in major cities.

The "issue" is Peter (apparently) being in an advanced placement academy/school while at the same time there's the typical high school nonsense with the dumb jock slamming the nerdy kid into the locker for just being. That's what was confusing to me in one way it seemed like a school for advanced students but in other ways it seemed like a regular, typical, high school with your typical bullshit going on it.

 

[captcalhoun]

something i want to add, i think this movie made a better job of Spidey's webswinging looking like it was ripped out of the comic's panels. particularly good examples are when Spidey swings past the helicopter's spotlight, when he swings and twists before swinging again during the police pursuit and in the last scene when he swings past the moon (you all know the shot i mean, i had it as my av)

 

[CaptainCanada]

The webslinging effects have certainly advanced quite a bit in five years; the improvements perhaps aren't as groundbreaking as the effects in the '02 film seemed at the time, but they're nonetheless quite impressive.

 

[Warped9]

Just saw it. It was fair, just okay. there are some things I liked and other things I didn't.

What this movie didn't have was the charm of Raimi's films. Raimi nailed the original source materiel sensibilities. This one goes mostly for angst and something of that Twilight feel. On that score I give Raimi the nod. Webb's film makes me think of Smallville. It's okay for what it is, but it's not Superman.

Toby McGuire vs. Andrew Garfield. It depends on what you want. McGuire felt like he stepped out of the comic pages as Peter Parker. Garfield did a good acting job, but to me he didn't really feel like the Peter Parker I'd immediately recognize.

Kirsten Dunst vs. Emma Stone. Kirsten Dunst was suitable for the way MJ was portrayed, but I'd have to give the nod to Stone for giving us a character I actually liked. Dunst's MJ seemed like she was all over the map emotionally while Stone's Gwen impressed me as more consistent. She was also portrayed to be smarter.

Rosemary Harris vs. Sally Field. Again it's a matter of perspective. Harris gave us the Aunt May of the comics. Field gives us a nice aunt, but not one I recognize as Aunt May.

Cliff Robertson vs. Martin Sheen. It's a draw.

Green Goblin vs. The Lizard. Overall I'd have to give the nod to Curt Connors and The Lizard as a more interesting villain. I think it's really a fine line, but Connors' motivation is simply more clearly laid out then Norman Osborn's.

Instead of J. Jonah Jameson we got Captain Stacy. J.J. was a riot. Capt. Stacy was just another cop who could have been anyone.

Like a lot of superhero films the hero keeps getting unmasked...and often enough the one who learns the hero's identity gets killed. Okay this time Connors isn't killed (but Stacy was) and that isn't a good threat to be hanging over Peter's head.

I didn't like the convoluted and contrived retconning of Spidey's origin. Filmmakers love to make everything cute-and-tidy. Peter Parker was an orphan living with his Aunt and Uncle. Done. We don't need to know anymore. We can simply assume his parents were lost somehow and Ben and May Parker took Peter into their care. But now we have to tie Richard Parker into Spidey's origins and connect it even more cutely with his first opponent, The Lizard. And we spend a whole hour on this.

Some of Spidey's quips were fun, but I also thought it was overdone at times.

The new suit looks like crap. Yeah, a skinny Spider-Man does evoke the early images of the character way back in '62, but the new design is crap and the overall finish of the outfit looked cheap too. Sorry, but Raimi's version nailed it in making the classic design work live-action. At best one could have tweaked the tone of the red and blue, but everything else works. The eye pieces of the new suit looked bad as well. And what the hell was with the red flashes when Spidey shoots his web??? Sure, this is window dressing, but the suit is a fail.

Overall it's an okay movie, and it wins on certain specific points and moments, but overall I much prefer Raimi's films, particularly the first two. Yeah, this one is better overall than SM3, but that wouldn't have been too hard.

 

[Warped9]

The webslinging effects have certainly advanced quite a bit in five years; the improvements perhaps aren't as groundbreaking as the effects in the '02 film seemed at the time, but they're nonetheless quite impressive.

Meh, I don't think that were really much better overall.

 

[CaptainCanada]

McGuire felt like he stepped out of the comic pages as Peter Parker. Garfield did a good acting job, but to me he didn't really feel like the Peter Parker I'd immediately recognize.

Maguire's take on Spider-Man was rather different from the comics version in some ways, just as Garfield's was.

I didn't like the convoluted and contrived retconning of Spidey's origin. Filmmakers love to make everything cute-and-tidy. Peter Parker was an orphan living with his Aunt and Uncle. Done. We don't need to know anymore. We can simply assume his parents were lost somehow and Ben and May Parker took Peter into their care. But now we have to tie Richard Parker into Spidey's origins and connect it even more cutely with his first opponent, The Lizard. And we spend a whole hour on this. :roll eyes:

That also has basis in both the 616 and Ultimate comics. Peter's parents were spies with a mysterious background in the former, and connected to genetics research in the latter.

 

[Warped9]

McGuire felt like he stepped out of the comic pages as Peter Parker. Garfield did a good acting job, but to me he didn't really feel like the Peter Parker I'd immediately recognize.

Maguire's take on Spider-Man was rather different from the comics version in some ways, just as Garfield's was.

I didn't like the convoluted and contrived retconning of Spidey's origin. Filmmakers love to make everything cute-and-tidy. Peter Parker was an orphan living with his Aunt and Uncle. Done. We don't need to know anymore. We can simply assume his parents were lost somehow and Ben and May Parker took Peter into their care. But now we have to tie Richard Parker into Spidey's origins and connect it even more cutely with his first opponent, The Lizard. And we spend a whole hour on this.

That also has basis in both the 616 and Ultimate comics. Peter's parents were spies with a mysterious background in the former, and connected to genetics research in the latter.

Goody for them.

 

[Relayer1]

I have to say that I'm heartily sick of reboots already. Recast, move on, whatever, you just don't need to keep hitting the reset button. Batman, Daredevil, Superman and Co. take note.

Having said that, although it wasn't perfect (you can nitpick for ever and a day regarding adherence to the source material) it really worked and was head and shoulders better than even the best of the Raimi's films. It avoided much of the stupidity of them and had a great cast (even if I do miss Willem Dafoe) - I never really liked Toby Maguire.

This is a Spidey that feels like he could fit into the Avengers universe...

 

[CaptainCanada]

Goody for the Ultimate comics, which also retconned the origin.

It's not a retcon when it's a new continuity (much like the films). Movie adaptations have always drawn from multiple versions of the character from over the years, particularly when, in this case, they're trying to do things differently from the '02 film.

 

[Mooch]

I liked it quite a bit better than any of the previous Spider-Mans, mainly because I like the cast better, and the director and the composer. Script wise it's mostly a wash.

I would be interested in seeing a longer cut should one become available in the future.

 

[Warped9]

I had fun watching the Raimi films. This one not as much.

 

[Pauln6]

I liked the movie, the music and chorepgraphy were good, Emma Stone is just awesome in anything she does, and Dennis Leary and Martin Sheen were cool.

However, I could see no reason why they needed to reboot, even if re-casting was necessary. The story bought nothing new to the franchise - at least nothing new that could not have easily been tacked onto the outstanding franchise (Gwen and Curt Connors were already established as characters. If Peter and Mary Jane had stayed split up at the end of 3, they could have used Venom and Lizard in 4, working up to Hobgoblin and Gwen's death in 5).

While I agree that Spider-Man 3 mis-stepped by being too obvious in its approach and tacking Venom on the end when he should have been the main villain in Spider-man 4, I thought 1 & 2 were pretty much note-perfect in terms of Maguire's character.

They tried too hard not to go over the same ground in this movie so it ended up being too humourless (although kudos to Stan Lee for one of his best cameos), and Peter was barely a nerd. Most of the dialogue was quite leaden and, while Garfield's performance was creditable, it just lacked what makes Peter Peter. Sally Field was given nothing to give May any sort of presence either.

In fact my overall opinion was that these were the characters in name only. There was nothing on screen that identified them as the characters from the comics. Like it or loathe it, the first trilogy did a fantastic job of portraying characters that were recognisable - especially JJJ!

 

[DarthPipes]

I wish to hell they would do The Sinister Six for a future Spider-Man movie. They can't do the Avengers so Sony could do a villain superteam with Spidey's rogue gallery. Problem is, that would probably tax their budget too damn much.

 

[stj]

I was informed that I wanted to see this in the theater.

The tendency to do things more than once was tiresome. Peter Parker must be a hero because of guilt over how he lost Uncle Ben and because he was responsible for Connors becoming the Lizard. Not twice as impressive, but half. Unmasking for Jack, the Lizard and Stacy. Not three times as impressive, one third. His parents are killed by Connors and Osborn. If that many people disliked them, maybe they weren't really very nice people? You ever think of that, huh?

The tendency to very briefly pause for Spidey to copy action panels from the comics was a not really helpful. As a comic book movie, you go in prepared to work very hard at willing suspension of disbelief. But a spider making the tennis shoes stick to a subway car ceiling was pretty rough. Having an endless supply of webbing in those dinky little writlets after an infodump clearly highlights the impossibility is even rougher. I suppose the director didn't understand the dialogue.

The laying of pipe to deliver the sequels was tiresome.

But most of all I think, the fact that Peter Parker is such a liar (and only really articulate when he lies) is a little bit unpleasant, something that you don't really want in a Spiderman flick.

The score was excellent. Horner is widely despised for some reason, but his score really sold the cranes sequence, which for me engaged enough emotion to turn the movie, despite its problems, into a win. The setup was clumsy as hell and the whole thing was corny as hell. Still worked for me.

 

[Captain Craig]

I voted Good but my real grade is: B-

Discounting any type of anal review about how close it is to the comics, 616 or Ultimate, this film has structural and pacing issues that make it less than desirable. Things happen in the film just to move the story along. It does not feel like sequences move in a fluid manner from one to the other.

For all the issues I had going in from the trailers the idea of doing the origin again was one of them. While I have some issues with that sequence(a bunch of spiders dumping on him) the opening origin hour mid way through Act II is the tightest part of the movie imo. I highly, highly, highly take fault that one of the greatest catch phrases in comicdom is omitted: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY. I'm actually fine with tweaking just how Ben gets killed cause it's his death via Peter's inaction that is important. Not if it's a home invasion or car burglary etc.
I also take issue with the prolonged vengeance hunt by Peter to find the burglar with the star tattoo. It seems that is also going to carry over throughout the trilogy.
I say that both Flash Thompsons get an A for being quality douche bags though.

The lack of Curt Connors family in the movie is a sad omission. Connors having the family is what largely separates him from being just another scientist gone gonzo. The fact that that was the interpretation they went with is just more proof they should've stayed in the Raimi-verse. At least that cliche was already established and begrudgingly accepted.

Keeping in mind when you watch a film of certain types you have to suspend some logic. However, certain things still have to make sense. Like I get peoples issue with Black Widow and her 9mm as a point. Likewise, in this film there is no way, none at all, that a high school intern(police chiefs daughter or not) has access to lab equipment not only after hours BUT has codes to various equipment. If she did they would be tied to time access.
Really Gwen being the first girlfriend squeeze is the only thing they got exactly right where the Raimi film didn't. The only thing. I also take issue with the rush to reveal who he was. He really hadn't even established that himself yet frankly. That reveal could've waited but they felt the need to include Gwen in the action montage at the end for the formula. A better result would've been to have Peter creating a cure out of Connors sewer lab.

Peter's webbing. So is it Oscorp micro filament or did you make it? We see him opening and experimenting with cases he ordered AND he tells the car thief "it's something I created", so which is it? If a bunch of Oscorp, commercially available micro filament is out there it doesn't take the dark knight to figure out where large quantities are going that don't match a user profile for the stuff. Also, why aren't the cops using this as well? Screw tasers.

The all to convenient "NY loves you Spider-man" moment. Yes the foreman is the one who's son was saved by Spider-man but nothing is done for a rally cry moment "Spider-man needs our help guys, let's make sure he gets it. Line those cranes up for him". A weak attempt to recreate the ferry scene from the Raimi film.

The fight at the high school served what end? At one point did Connors go vendetta crazy? If Parker were at school using the Chem lab to whip up an antidote then fine but going after him at that point, in that location made no sense to a character who had been shown to be still in his right mind. Which gets us to the sudden lame mustache twirling excuse to turn all of NY into Lizard town. It's like a Avi Arad saw that in mag and just insisted that element had to be in the film. There are just massive missteps in logic on Connors part for why he's suddenly doing things. Hell, as the Lizard he was trying to stop Osborne's stooge from doing random tests at the VA for crying out loud. Then 45 minutes later he suddenly wants to turn NYC into one big Lizard Lounge? WTF??

Dennis Leary stole every scene he was in during the film. Him dying is a true comic element and I hated seeing him go so soon. The one "hurry up lets create Team Spidey" moment was the reveal Peter=Spidey...and oh, by the way if you don't let me go Gwen may die routine. Of course it also sets up the promise he wants Peter to take about distancing himself from Gwen. However we all know where that's going.

Was I the only one who felt like after Gwen visited Peter on the porch after her fathers funeral that the film just couldn't find a way to end? I felt like it was trying to end 2-3 times in the lat 5-7 minutes.
Also, was anyone besides me NOT teased by the prison visitation scene mid-credits?

The Raimi origin film is just head and shoulders above this one as a complete film.

 

[Trekker4747]

Saw it again tonight with a buddy, on second viewing I think the movie held up and I think I liked it better. It's still certainly filled with flaws and plot holes (I'm still not sure what The Lizard's ultimate goal is and where it even comes from) but the chemistry and charisma of Garfield and Stone is way better here than between McGuire and Dunst.

Buddy and I got to talking on the way home from the show and wondered if the second movie in this series might not grow a good, solid, pair of balls and kill of Stacy and introduce MJ in a manner similar to the comics.

If they did that it'd certainly be bold and pretty damn hardcore.

 

[timothy]

Spoiler: final sceen during the credits?

ok when they show connor's in jail is he talking to himself? Or is he talking to norman osbourne?

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I liked it quite a bit better than any of the previous Spider-Mans, mainly because I like the cast better, and the director and the composer. Script wise it's mostly a wash.

I would be interested in seeing a longer cut should one become available in the future.

Longer cut???

Seriously - I really enjoyed the film. My girlfriend, on the other hand, didn't care for it for many points that I firmly agree with. We both thought it was pointless to retell Spider-Man's origin. It almost felt like the creators wanted Spider-Man back in high school, because that is where they concentrated so much of the story on. Except they cast actors who are clearly too old to be in high school...

Either way, I enjoyed the cast much more than the Raimi versions. I have never been impressed with Toby Mcquire, and the less said about Kirsten Dunst the better.

I do enjoy that they went for a grittier take on Spider-Man in that they made it quite clear that he can be hurt. Even with super powers, he was never meant to be bullet proof. However, even with their nod to realism, the movie is clearly set in a comic book universe where people can be thrown against walls without suffering broken bones or concussions.

I may have missed something, but the movie seemed to gloss over how he got his powers. Sure, there was a spider bite, but what was different about that particular spider? All we were shown was Peter walking into a room full of spiders in a lab we know is working on cross species genetics. Were the spiders specifically genetically engineered to give super powers???

While it would be a very cool twist that reveal that Spider-Man was deliberately created, that was never made clear in this film. Possible sequel fodder?

A slight spoilery comment about the end - at one point Spider-Man nearly falls of the edge of a building after his web sligers are destroyed and has to be saved. I turned to my girlfriend and said "good thing Spider-Man can stick to walls. Whoops! I guess he can't now".