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the alternate factor

plynch said:
I like Plato's Stepchildren.

I will take AF over Mudd's Women. In fact, I think it is the most recent ep I 've viewed, out of curiosity. It's pretty wack.
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You know . . . MW has aged horribly (any relation to story content absolutely not intended). In terms of story it's . . . yeah, it's not good. However, there is much more of the Enterprise and Scotty (as well as some good Scotty-Spock interaction) in MW, so I take your point, but will have to go with MW. AF is a mess. Not really offensive or anything, just boring. Strangely, though, I do like the "What of Lazarus" line and the contemplation about his fate at the end.
 
Phaser Two said:
You know . . . MW has aged horribly (any relation to story content absolutely not intended). In terms of story it's . . . yeah, it's not good. However, there is much more of the Enterprise and Scotty (as well as some good Scotty-Spock interaction) in MW, so I take your point, but will have to go with MW. AF is a mess. Not really offensive or anything, just boring. Strangely, though, I do like the "What of Lazarus" line and the contemplation about his fate at the end.
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MW may have aged, but there was some coherence, logic to it. The Alternative Factor was just a big mess for me.
 
AF could have been a good TOS episode. Time travellers, corridor between universes, Kirk saves the day again. Too bad it just fell apart somewhere, somehow.
 
To a degree, this should have worked for the episode rather than against it - after all, it is a mystery piece where the heroes are confused about what is going on, so the audience experience ought to reflect that. But this is a difficult act to pull together, literally, and the ultimate pulling together just fails to happen.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Indysolo said:
That's just it. Even the other bad episodes are at the very minimum coherent. The Alternative Factor doesn't even have that going for it.
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It comes down to how a person weighs coherence against other factors that together define enjoyability. If I'm going to rewatch something I've already seen ten or twenty times, it's going to come down whether I think I'm actually going to enjoy the experience, not precisely how easily I can tear apart the premise, plot, story, dialog, or whatever.

But no argument regarding the incoherence of TAF. They seemingly just went with whatever they had and made the best of the train wreck.
 
Spock's Barber said:
Yes, even now when I watch AF I still wonder..."Is that Lazarus A or Lazarus B???" :shrug:
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I enjoy this episode. I like the sense of galactic crisis at the beginning that has Starfleet fearing invasion. I like when Kirk and Spock reason out the threat to both universes. I like Kirk contemplating Lazarus's fate. The production values are good (outdoor location, firefighting crew) and it even features a rare instance of Mr. Leslie speaking.

I agree with Spock's Barber and it does fail to convince me that there are two of Lazarus and that they are exchanging places. However in the end I can forgive this episode its serious flaws given the chaos surrounding the production of it.
 
This episode is mess, but a mess on an epic scale!
After a recent rewatch I had some fresh thoughts which might help make sense of it all:

Basically, Kirk & co stumble into someone else's problem. Who's problem? Alt-Lazarus. It is his people who discovered how to bridge universes, which in turn drove his counterpart mad. Since then Alt-Laz has been trying to trap Lazarus in the magnetic corridor, in order to prevent the two of them ending up in the same universe as this would be bad for some reason (probably quantum). However, Lazarus keeps escaping and each time he does so it is accompanied by a "winking out" effect. Eventually Alt-Laz works out a way to exchange himself with Lazarus without the colossal side effects, but only for short periods of time. It happens twice:
  • In Sickbay. McCoy notices the difference but then Alt-Laz escapes and learns about the presence of dilithium crystals on board this strange ship he finds himself in, but slips back to the magnetic corridor before he can take action.
  • Near Engineering. Alt-Laz sneaks in and steals 2 crystals, with the help of his pocket sleep-needle. It is not known when he slips back, but it seems he took the time to hack into the ship's computer and familiarise himself with the ship's captain at least
  • In Sickbay, a third attempt is made but Lazarus is able to fight it off (just after his second fall off the mountain)
It seems that the dilithium crystals will allow Alt-Laz greater control on drawing Lazarus into the magnetic corridor. Dilithium may indeed have been a vital component in the original technology required to connect other universes.

Of course, we only have Alt-Lazarus' word for much of this; he may well be a lying sociopath for all we know.
Hell, we've seen how the Transporter can split a man into 2 beings that cannot survive without each other; maybe this is a similar set of circumstances?
 
Spock's Barber said:
Look out, JB. Parmen does this to people who don't like Plato's Stepchildren. :whistle:

Platos_Stepchildren_092.JPG
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I'm currently two hundred and fifty one years in his past and I'm on the other side of the galaxy so he won't even know my Lord! Nyah, Nyah, Nyah! :nyah::nyah::nyah::nyah:
JB
 
Spectre Of The Fun said:
I enjoy this episode. I like the sense of galactic crisis at the beginning that has Starfleet fearing invasion. I like when Kirk and Spock reason out the threat to both universes. I like Kirk contemplating Lazarus's fate. The production values are good (outdoor location, firefighting crew) and it even features a rare instance of Mr. Leslie speaking.

I agree with Spock's Barber and it does fail to convince me that there are two of Lazarus and that they are exchanging places. However in the end I can forgive this episode its serious flaws given the chaos surrounding the production of it.
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It definitely "feels" different than other ST episodes.
 
Mytran said:
This episode is mess, but a mess on an epic scale!
After a recent rewatch I had some fresh thoughts which might help make sense of it all:
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...Suddenly I get a grand vision of the mirror image of "These Are the Voyages": another completely superfluous retelling from the "between the lines" viewpoint, with the Lazari as the main characters, so that something that previously did not make any sense and did not stand on its own as an hour of drama becomes an epic fan favorite.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
...Suddenly I get a grand vision of the mirror image of "These Are the Voyages": another completely superfluous retelling from the "between the lines" viewpoint, with the Lazari as the main characters, so that something that previously did not make any sense and did not stand on its own as an hour of drama becomes an epic fan favorite.

Timo Saloniemi
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This is called the "Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" version.
 
Spock's Barber said:
Yes, even now when I watch AF I still wonder..."Is that Lazarus A or Lazarus B???" :shrug:
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What really flummoxed me was this: Both versions of Lazarus appear equally nuts (we see them switch back and forth many times, and he always acts the same), yet when Kirk ends up in the antimatter universe and meets one of the Lazaruses, this one is a normal, well-adjusted person? What made this Lazarus stop going bonkers? :confused:
 
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