The Allure of Orions?

[Pauln6]

Trek's problem with sexism is more with the breadth of female characters rather than the individual traits of a particular character or race i.e. certain traditionally 'sexist' portrayals crop up far more often than other types of portrayal. It's a broad problem. Examples of matriarchal societies are often treated with skepticism by our male heroes while those cheeky scamps the Ferengi are just humoured.

The worst example of sexism I have seen recently was in the Planet of the Apes reboot. Female apes are very much a guiding force in ape society but as soon as the apes become more intelligent, the male apes firmly take charge, the men go off to fight, and the women stay at home doing whatever it is that intelligent female apes do. I'm guessing... cook food and tidy up the shacks? We don't really know because they don't really feature any female apes except one who is debilitatingly pregnant, as chimps so frequently are.

 

[borgboy]

There is evidence that there are differences in the brains of gay and straight men, so I think it's reasonable to assume that gay men would be affected by Orion female phermones the way straight women are, not straight men.

I think the Enterprise reveal of the Orion women as the true power of their society has potential, but it wasn't explored well enough to be considered well done.

The novels have done a lot more interesting things with Orion women, showing them outside of the limited roles of oppressed slave or sly temptresses.

 

[T'Girl]

Just as there are differences in the brain architecture between homo and heterosexual men, there are also differences between a gay men's and a straight women's brains.

If you accept that Reed is actually gay/bisexual (some point on the spectrum) then his reaction to the Orion women could be seen as "typical" for that sexual orientation.

 

[borgboy]

Just as there are differences in the brain architecture between homo and heterosexual men, there are also differences between a gay men's and a straight women's brains.

If you accept that Reed is actually gay/bisexual (some point on the spectrum) then his reaction to the Orion women could be seen as "typical" for that sexual orientation.

I would like to think Reed is bi but I don't know that there's any real evidence pointing to that. A bisexual man would probably react to Orion female phermones the same way a straight man would.

 

[eyeresist]

My opinion: The evidence for brain differences between gay and straight is very slight. If you compare any two randomly chosen sets, you will find a statistical difference. This urge to find a biologically deterministic justification is a very American thing, which we also see in regard to drug and alcohol addiction. I think it's a reaction to the puritan conservativism which underlies US culture, to say "You shouldn't penalise me for immoral acts because it's not my fault - God/the devil/biology made me do it". Scientists outside the US regard these issues very differently.

 

[borgboy]

I think it's kind of heterosexist to think that gay men would react to female phermones the same way straight men would. It's as if there's some underlying assumption that heterosexuality is going to be there when it's not. I know we're discussing fictional alien phermones so the only rules in this situation are made up, but still. We're all entitled to our own opinions. I'm not aware of the novels have touched on Orion phermone effects on non heterosexuals.

 

[eyeresist]

I think any further discussion of this issue should go to The Neutral Zone.

 

[T'Girl]

^ Why. What could the neutral zone add to this discussion other than the usual obscenities and tiresome personal attacks?

 

[borgboy]

It's frustrating that it seems like every discussion about homosexuality in Trek winds up being kicked down to the Neutral Zone

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The whole point of my original thread was homosexuality in Star Trek, why would it need to be moved anywhere?

 

[eyeresist]

We seemed to be heading into a controversial and NON-TREK SPECIFIC area. Hence my suggestion of a separate TNZ thread.