The age of Starships, how old can they get?

[at Quark's]

Well, Discovery has the seed vault USS Tikhov , built in the mid-23rd century at the very latest, still in service in 3188, which would make the possible age of a starship at least 950 years, since it says nowhere the ship was ever replaced with a newer model.

Of course a seed vault probably doesn't need to be particularly 'competitive' in regards of contemporary technology, and the Federation was in dire straits, but still. I would therefore probably select one of the last three options.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Of course a seed vault probably doesn't need to be particularly 'competitive' in regards of contemporary technology,

That for me is the key point.

Civilian freighters and other "stay out of trouble and mind your own business" type vessels have a much lower "buy in" in terms of productive longevity, particularly if -- like the seed vault -- endurance is the priority over speed.

On the other hand, front-line starships which at best have to be designed for running around for extended periods at high warp, often days or week at minimum from help, and often doing the exact opposite of "stay out of trouble and mind your own business" even before you consider military/defense operations.

 

[kon5ti]

That for me is the key point.

Civilian freighters and other "stay out of trouble and mind your own business" type vessels have a much lower "buy in" in terms of productive longevity, particularly if -- like the seed vault -- endurance is the priority over speed.

On the other hand, front-line starships which at best have to be designed for running around for extended periods at high warp, often days or week at minimum from help, and often doing the exact opposite of "stay out of trouble and mind your own business" even before you consider military/defense operations.

Hmm I still think 950 years is way to old for it. It is a bit like if the Royal Navy uses a Viking Ship. Of cause you can argue the technology has not progressed that far, but then you must assume, that it was never damaged.

 

[kon5ti]

Hmm I still think 950 years is way to old for it. It is a bit like if the Royal Navy uses a Viking Ship. Of cause you can argue the technology has not progressed that far, but then you must assume, that it was never damaged.

Even in a support role such a ship would simply not work in the modern day.

 

[Unicron]

Did you mean to edit your post, rather than quoting the reply?

 

[kon5ti]

No

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Hmm I still think 950 years is way to old for it.

Well, I think there's a certain "model vs hull" argument to be had there, but I agree more than I disagree.

 

[LazyReader]

Ship of Theseus argument. Hypothetically the old paradoxical question, if at some point you replace Every part of a ship, is it still the same ship. No doubt a ships only original hardware would be it's skeletal framework. Everything from Hull plates to carpeting is replicate-able to replaceable. Assuming the "Keel" is capable of continuing. Hardware like computers, power core, etc can be jerry rigged with new designs.

 

[Timo]

The fun case to be considered is the TMP refit. Basically nothing of the original outer hull survives: every surface contour and dimension is altered. Internally, everything looks different, too. So we have to wonder whether they just scrapped an old ship and built a new one, then attached the new dedication plaque with screws from the old ship and called it a "refit" - or whether there existed some sort of a "keel" around which the refit was conducted.

Nothing suggests starships would have keels, though. In various cutaway graphics, they seem held together only by the strength of their outer skin. And if a keel did exist, one would expect it to carry the weight of the warp nacelles first and foremost - but that's one of the bits that in TMP is shaped utterly differently from the original. So, hardly a ship of Theseus, but more like a ship of Pirithous, bought by Theseus and renamed...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Nothing suggests starships would have keels, though. In various cutaway graphics, they seem held together only by the strength of their outer skin. And if a keel did exist, one would expect it to carry the weight of the warp nacelles first and foremost - but that's one of the bits that in TMP is shaped utterly differently from the original. So, hardly a ship of Theseus, but more like a ship of Pirithous, bought by Theseus and renamed...

Timo Saloniemi

They may not have been a Keel in the traditional nautical sense, but StarShips do have a skeleton and core structural member that is reinforced by the SIF (Structural Integrity Field).

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

Perhaps it is the "keel"-like structure that is either very expensive or very hard to produce or very time-consuming to produce. That would explain such an extensive refit would be undertaken. If the nacelles and apparently the struts are able to be quickly changed, then maybe the nacelles have their own internal structure that can be affixed to the structure of the secondary hull.

Has anyone tried to fit the shape/size of the corridors from TMP into the corridors from TOS, for example?

What I guess I am saying is that we don't know how much of the shape of the TOS-ship is directly related to the shape of its "keel"-like structure, so we don't know that the TMP refit had to reshape the whole ship be doing more than adding new structures.

Alternatively, there has been a fan theory that the refit removed extras from the original ship and left a different shape underneath, and that the refit is smaller. If I recall, this theory takes Probert's 1000 feet for the refit as accurate, and upscales the TOS version to 1088 feet.

I don't personally favor that theory for the actual refit, but I think that it makes sense for the NCC-1701-A, since it was said to only carry 300 people. Assuming a 947-foot TOS ship, and a 1000-foot TMP, ship, that would make NCC-1701-A about 870 feet long.

 

[publiusr]

I like the refit being bigger. I think there was a blurb in a novel about a gap between old and new hulls being a lovers lane…
I posted a link at the aviation thread here about how the B-52 looks to be in service until 2097.

 

[LazyReader]

Well, Discovery has the seed vault USS Tikhov , built in the mid-23rd century at the very latest, still in service in 3188, which would make the possible age of a starship at least 950 years, since it says nowhere the ship was ever replaced with a newer model.

Of course a seed vault probably doesn't need to be particularly 'competitive' in regards of contemporary technology, and the Federation was in dire straits, but still. I would therefore probably select one of the last three options.

Well, for one thing USS Tikhov Hull registry is NCC-1067-M. 14th generation. Is the ship that old or the seed vault. 900 years in 14 generations is one ship every 64 years.

 

[Timo]

...One seed vault ship, that is. Other missions might wear down ships and ship designs slightly faster. But the average rate at which Starfleet goes through ships named Enterprise (five between 2245 and 2371 giving just a quarter of a century for each) might be at the other extreme. And things might start to look brighter for ship longevity soon after 2371.

As for keels, the TMP refit is remarkable specifically in disproving the presence of one: the structure that keeps the nacelles flying in formation with the rest of the hull is completely replaced by an utterly different one, with different attachment points at both ends.

What is left that we could interpret as a keel? Some sort of a ramrod running in the centerline of the secondary hull cigar? None there, as evidenced by the vast shuttlebay. The same, running along the saucer center axis like a clock hand pointing aft? Possibly, but that's a really odd thing to have in a saucer-shaped structure, and hardly worth considering when choosing between a refit and a newbuild; if those things were expensive, one could easily yank them out of old ships and install them inside ships of utterly different design.

If the keel is something that hugs the contours of the hull instead, then the TMP refit means Starfleet ditched the old keels, since the contours and dimensions of all hull components are the ones to change.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[LazyReader]

Obviously a seed ship isn't being sent to the Romulan neutral zone or to fend off the Borg, the ships a drifter, the reason it probably survived "The Burn" it's warp drive wasn't even on.

 

[Timo]

...But the reason she had a warp drive in the first place, and was hugging a cloud of death, may well have been that precious vaults like that are constantly on the run from threat forces and hiding in forbidding places. It might not be the easiest life for a starship.

I rather like to think the original NCC-1067 was sister ship to NCC-1031, part of a batch of big triangle-hullers that lost their origgianl reason for existence and were relegated to the oddest of roles - flying labs, seed vaults, floating factories, whatever calls for vast and largely empty interiors. That Starfleet didn't bother to rip the warp engines off those hulls originally was serendipity, allowing each of the odd roles to be expanded in ways not originally imagined. Thus, not even a seed ship lives forever, as it now leads a more strenuous life, even if in order to actually live longer...

Timo Saloniemi