Yeah, him
The 3 Good Things and 3 Bad Things Challenge
- Thread starter TheMadCloner
- Start date
Emperor's New Cloak
1. Intendant/Ezri is kinda hot.
2. Possible future for MU where everyone's not automatically evil.
3. Vic as human is kinda funny.
Chain of Command
1. Whole pretext for capturing Picard didn't make sense.
2. Jelico portrayed as bad guy but kinda had some good points.
3. Effect of Picard's torture ignored in future episodes.
1. Intendant/Ezri is kinda hot.
2. Possible future for MU where everyone's not automatically evil.
3. Vic as human is kinda funny.
Chain of Command
1. Whole pretext for capturing Picard didn't make sense.
2. Jelico portrayed as bad guy but kinda had some good points.
3. Effect of Picard's torture ignored in future episodes.
A number of people have defended Capt. Jellico, and he was right about a number of things (though going to a four shift rotation while on the brink of war was a seriously bad idea). Most notably, being unwilling to hand over a whole system to the Cardies, just to save one person.
To be fair to Jellico, also... Kira suggested a 4 shift to Sisko, and it worked.
Jellico didn't seem a bad captain at all to me. Just unsympathetic, and incompatible with the culture the Enterprise crew had gotten used to.
But in a pitched battle with (say) the Dominion, Captains of his breed might have been exactly the type needed on the battlefield to tilt the battle into the Federation's favour.
But in a pitched battle with (say) the Dominion, Captains of his breed might have been exactly the type needed on the battlefield to tilt the battle into the Federation's favour.
Not sure how that's the fault of the episode.
You don't make a fundamental change in the way a ship operates when it could be hours away from a violent conflict, and you need everything to run smoothly. If Jellico had waited for a period of peaceful and routine activity, and then transitioned over to a four-shift rotation, that would have been perfectly fine.
Two I just watched.
Spirit Folk (good):
1. Maggie to cow... hilarious!
2. The alternative setting is a nice change of pace.
3. Those two old Irish geezers had some good comic bits.
The Drumhead (bad)
1. We never find out what happens to Simon Tarses afterward.
2. Did Picard actually violate the Prime Directive nine times? That seems a little high...
3. Nothing. Not even "The Nitpicker's Guide" could produce a legitimate complaint.
Two I just watched.
Spirit Folk (good):
1. Maggie to cow... hilarious!
2. The alternative setting is a nice change of pace.
3. Those two old Irish geezers had some good comic bits.
The Drumhead (bad)
1. We never find out what happens to Simon Tarses afterward.
2. Did Picard actually violate the Prime Directive nine times? That seems a little high...
3. Nothing. Not even "The Nitpicker's Guide" could produce a legitimate complaint.
Well, you could argue that Starfleet Command had a significant share of that responsibility. See the following snippet:
Given that Starfleet Command probably reads and processes captain's logs on some level, they must have known that Jellico had a very different command style, possibly knew he wasn't afraid of such sweeping changes, and yet they chose him, not only to lead the negotations, but because they wanted him in actual command on the bridge. Had they just wanted things to run smoothly, Riker would have been competent enough after several years as XO. Jellico wasn't just a random replacement for Picard, they actively wanted him to captain the ent-D.
Agreed...reminded me a little of how I felt about Lorca at first.
Yes, I can understand. Of course we don't know why he wanted to push that rotation change through despite the founded objections from Riker. Perhaps it was simply his personal preference - in that case I'd agree with you that it was wrong to do at that time. Perhaps he wanted it because he had previous combat experience indicating that people's efficiency declined towards the end of such a longer shift in a combat situation and he didn't want to risk that, reasoning that the temporary chaos and difficulty it would cause was more than worth it.
Last edited:
It might well have been worth it, if Jellico had a few weeks to assemble the new shift and get them up to peak efficiency. Since they were pressed for time, better to work with the three-shift rotation. Then, if Picard doesn't return and he receives permanent command of the Enterprise, make the changes at an opportune time.
24/4 = 6 hours
24/3 = 8 hours
I wouldn't mind working six hours instead of eight.
I think the whole "I can't believe he wants to change it to a four-shift rotation!" thing is Mock Outrage on the crew's part.
24/3 = 8 hours
I wouldn't mind working six hours instead of eight.
I think the whole "I can't believe he wants to change it to a four-shift rotation!" thing is Mock Outrage on the crew's part.
The number of personnel doesn't change, so you probably keep working the same total amount of hours per week/month. Slightly shorter, but slightly more often, too.
The problem is getting it done in an efficient manner. Creating a fourth shift from the ground up takes time, and the other three shifts will lose people in the process. It vastly reduces efficiency for a time. And that's the LAST thing a ship that may be entering battle needs.
Just to keep the math simple, let's say you have a staff of 12. Three shifts means you have four people on at the same time. Four shifts means you have three people on at the same time. If you have a specific assignment, then you have a third more work to do in your shift. If it's a team effort, you have to do a third more work. But the work load could also be partitioned so that you have less to do each shift. Depending on the type of job we're talking about.
I don't know or care which was better in the long run, because I don't know the precise mechanics of shifts and watches in Starfleet. I'm just saying that Jellico made a bad decision in making the switch on the eve of battle. You need your people at maximum efficiency then, and for the Enterprise, that meant holding to the three shift rotation that the crew was used to.
Three bad things about a good episode: “Borderland” (ENT)
1. No significant upgrades for the crew or the ship. For one, Mayweather and Sato remained the same rank. You would think that they would have been promoted after their respective roles in the Xindi mission – which, you know, saved Earth and prevented the extinction of humanity - and this is their first mission since them. In the case of the ship, the NX-refit would have been a good addition here, or at least the pillars that were added to Columbia’s bridge.
2. Orions and the Borderland region could have been their own story arc, maybe a two-parter with “Bound” instead.
3. Using Klingons in the episode. I get its to set up the Klingon Augment’s arc later in the season to help explain the discrepancy of Klingon ridges in the TOS era and TNG era, but it would have been more interesting if the Augments interjected themselves in the Suliban-Tandaran conflict. Considering the Suliban Cabal’s own genetic modifications. And would have fit with the continuity of a Eugenics wars in the 22nd century, as mentioned in DS9
Three good things about a bad (technically bland) episode: “Vanishing Point’ (ENT)
1. It was a good concept regarding fear of using the transporter for human use, permanently vanishing upon use of it, and past urban legends like Cyrus Ramsey in relation to early transporter experiments.
2. Continuity in exploring a fear of a member of the main cast that on the show (Sato).
3. Gyrosphere in the ship's gym seems fun to use.
1. No significant upgrades for the crew or the ship. For one, Mayweather and Sato remained the same rank. You would think that they would have been promoted after their respective roles in the Xindi mission – which, you know, saved Earth and prevented the extinction of humanity - and this is their first mission since them. In the case of the ship, the NX-refit would have been a good addition here, or at least the pillars that were added to Columbia’s bridge.
2. Orions and the Borderland region could have been their own story arc, maybe a two-parter with “Bound” instead.
3. Using Klingons in the episode. I get its to set up the Klingon Augment’s arc later in the season to help explain the discrepancy of Klingon ridges in the TOS era and TNG era, but it would have been more interesting if the Augments interjected themselves in the Suliban-Tandaran conflict. Considering the Suliban Cabal’s own genetic modifications. And would have fit with the continuity of a Eugenics wars in the 22nd century, as mentioned in DS9
Three good things about a bad (technically bland) episode: “Vanishing Point’ (ENT)
1. It was a good concept regarding fear of using the transporter for human use, permanently vanishing upon use of it, and past urban legends like Cyrus Ramsey in relation to early transporter experiments.
2. Continuity in exploring a fear of a member of the main cast that on the show (Sato).
3. Gyrosphere in the ship's gym seems fun to use.
My final one here.
3 Good Things About a Bad Episode: “A Night In Sickbay” (ENT)
1. It was an attempt to deal with the idea of Archer being in love, or simply being attracted to, a member of his crew.
2. The existence of a chainsaw onboard a starship in the 22nd century actually isn’t a crazy idea at all.
3. Um, er…it surprisingly wasn’t the episode that got the series cancelled. That was “Babel One” - a much better episode - a couple of seasons later.
3 Bad Things About a Good Episode: “The Enterprise Incident” (TOS)
1. This is the first appearance of female starship commander in TOS, and she didn’t even have a name!
2. It’s literally one of the very few appearances of Romulans during the TOS era. Meaning, as much as we learn new things about the Romulans, we also learn very little about them in this time period.
3. The sudden alliance/technological exchange between the Romulans and the Klingons is poorly explained in this episode. It just comes out of nowhere.
3 Good Things About a Bad Episode: “A Night In Sickbay” (ENT)
1. It was an attempt to deal with the idea of Archer being in love, or simply being attracted to, a member of his crew.
2. The existence of a chainsaw onboard a starship in the 22nd century actually isn’t a crazy idea at all.
3. Um, er…it surprisingly wasn’t the episode that got the series cancelled. That was “Babel One” - a much better episode - a couple of seasons later.
3 Bad Things About a Good Episode: “The Enterprise Incident” (TOS)
1. This is the first appearance of female starship commander in TOS, and she didn’t even have a name!
2. It’s literally one of the very few appearances of Romulans during the TOS era. Meaning, as much as we learn new things about the Romulans, we also learn very little about them in this time period.
3. The sudden alliance/technological exchange between the Romulans and the Klingons is poorly explained in this episode. It just comes out of nowhere.
Last edited:
Similar threads
