The 1994 Nellis AFB UFO video

[Bill Morris]

So one can't really differentiate fake from real by just looking at the aerial photographs.

I notice that you define the ones produced by unknown means as "real", and ones produced by known means as "fake". This implies that those produced by mysterious construction methods have not been produced by humans, but all it really means is that investigators don't know how some crop circles were produced. It's a big leap of faith to get from "real" crop circles to extraterrestrials, IMO.

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Once you have evidence that some are produced with technology as yet unavailable to humans, the list of suspects other than spacefaring aliens gets pretty weird:

!. Nazis hiding out in Antarctica
2. Ghosts
3. Gods, devils, angels
4. Intelligent animals
5. A civilization that lives underwater
6: Humans from the future
7. Some well-funded covert group of humans with advanced technology they don't wish to make public
8. Artistic lightning

Whom or what am I omitting here?

But remember, there are plenty of main-sequence stars much older than the Sun within 100 light-years. Two in particular 39.2 light-years from here are approximately a billion years older and only three light-weeks apart, meaning that an alien civilization may have sent its first interstellar robotic probe a billion years ago and certainly would have also been aware of Earth that long ago, as well, just as we have become aware of exoplanets and will in the not-so-distant future will be able to detect possible M-class exoplanets.

And given the various mass UFO sightings coupled with multiple radar confirrmation, as well as statements by several astronauts and others who should know (check my quotes link above), aliens do seem to be the prime suspect in the formation of crop circles that exhibit features we can't duplicate.

 

[sojourner]

^Or there is a hoaxster out there that hasn't revealed his technique yet.

 

[scotthm]

Once you have evidence that some are produced with technology as yet unavailable to humans...

A much more likely explanation for the mystery is that crop circle investigators aren't as thorough as they'd like you to believe.

And given the various mass UFO sightings coupled with multiple radar confirrmation, as well as statements by several astronauts and others who should know (check my quotes link above), aliens do seem to be the prime suspect in the formation of crop circles that exhibit features we can't duplicate.

Since UFOs are, by definition, unidentified, I don't know how you or others can be so certain they are of alien origin.

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[Bill Morris]

^Or there is a hoaxster out there that hasn't revealed his technique yet.

I have no doubt that if John Lundberg could obtain such technology he would soon have TV producers in a bidding war.

Once you have evidence that some are produced with technology as yet unavailable to humans...

A much more likely explanation for the mystery is that crop circle investigators aren't as thorough as they'd like you to believe.

Well, the researchers have limited budgets, which are further strained by all the hoaxes. Maybe they get their lab tests done free. I don't know.

And given the various mass UFO sightings coupled with multiple radar confirrmation, as well as statements by several astronauts and others who should know (check my quotes link above), aliens do seem to be the prime suspect in the formation of crop circles that exhibit features we can't duplicate.

Since UFOs are, by definition, unidentified, I don't know how you or others can be so certain they are of alien origin.

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Okay, but I made a list of silly alternatives. What can you add to the list? Interdimentional entities? Q? Folks from a parallel universe?

 

[scotthm]

Okay, but I made a list of silly alternatives. What can you add to the list? Interdimentional entities? Q? Folks from a parallel universe?

I would add the most obvious--human beings--who were left off your list because of your assumption that we lack the technology. It's much more plausible that human ingenuity is at work rather than any of the things on your list.

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[Psion]

Here's the problem, though. Paranormal subjects are a third rail for scientific careers these days. If any self-respecting scientist looked into the matter and announced unusual findings, they'd immediately become a laughing stock and watch their career flushed.

I doubt any paper announcing unusual properties of crop circles, regardless of the diligence and integrity of the author, would get accepted by a journal like Nature.

Of course, the reason such subjects are a third-rail is because they yielded so few results worth publishing a few decades ago when it was more acceptable to look into ghosts, psychic phenomena, and flying saucers.

 

[Bill Morris]

Okay, but I made a list of silly alternatives. What can you add to the list? Interdimentional entities? Q? Folks from a parallel universe?

I would add the most obvious--human beings--who were left off your list because of your assumption that we lack the technology. It's much more plausible that human ingenuity is at work rather than any of the things on your list.

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That's No. 7 on the list I posted. But such technology could be turned to profit if it existed, perhaps in medical applications or in disinfecting tainted food-processing facilities, although what's hot now in that regard is dry-ice blasting, which disinfects equipment where chemical means failed. Another possibility is weaponry: Boil the enemy's blood from a safe distance instead of shooting him. Why develop and use it just for silly chicanery?

By the way, it is said that crops grow a little better after being bent in such a manner (at least early in the season), and that seems to be true. Someone experimented with improving yield by applying electromagnetism to young stalks and actually got a patent for this process, I which I doubt would be cost-effective in commercial use. But that research was inspired by the one of the characteristics of crop circles. The development of dwarf wheat, however, was a big deal, since it greatly reduced loss caused by wind breakage and had a major effect on world food supply, since it costs the farmer nothing to choose that over the old variety.

Of course, fake crop circles have a lot of broken stalks, resulting in crop loss. A few farmers have said they were paid off by John Lundberg. With real crop circles, the only damage would be from trampling by visitors.

Some farmers mow a formation right away, and some don't allow visitors.

 

[scotthm]

That's No. 7 on the list I posted.

Oh. I obviously missed that one.

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[Bill Morris]

I would suggest reading the page of UFO quotes I linked on the previous page, which includes astronauts and other NASA people, presidents, military brass, and scientists.

UFO quotes:
http://www.netscientia.com/ufo_quotes.html

And even if Skunk Works did succeed in building UFO knock-offs, as former CEO Ben Rich claimed shortly before he died (he said they had reverse-engineered crashed alien craft and hand-me-downs from aliens and could already in 1991 accomplish interstellar flight), many of the sightings and statements covered in this quote page predate the 1955 opening of Area 51 and the Canadian project under contract from the U.S. Airforce to build a jet-powered flying saucer (Avrocar: first flight 1959). And why would secret U.S.-made flying saucers or flying triangles be showing themselves over Europe (as in the mass sighting over Belgium) and the rest of the world, anyway?

Avrocar on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmPiZv4q4Ms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3lQ4L_36c
Wikepedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avrocar

Some weird Soviet attempt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lPc0fpgP8U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cThIbDONerI&feature=related

 

[scotthm]

And why would secret U.S.-made flying saucers or flying triangles be showing themselves over Europe (as in the mass sighting over Belgium) and the rest of the world, anyway?

For that matter, why would anyone's secret UFOs be showing themselves?

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[RatnabaliRati]

hi WATS up its really a alien ship or any other artificial flying on the sky. dose any one proved it?..

__________________
ufo videos

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs[/yt]

 

[Lonemagpie]

^ It's not a fake, but since Nellis is a testing ground, it's logical to assume it was something terrestrial being tested.

Looks to me like it was a prototype of the Vectran airbag cushioning system used on 1997's Mars Pathfinder lander.

 

[scotpens]

Once you have evidence that some are produced with technology as yet unavailable to humans...

A much more likely explanation for the mystery is that crop circle investigators aren't as thorough as they'd like you to believe.

And if extraterrestrials or interdimensional beings were trying to communicate with us, wouldn’t they use a more direct method than making cryptic geometric patterns in wheat fields?

Crop circles began in rural England as practical jokes. That’s all they are and all they’ve ever been.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Crop circles began in rural England as practical jokes. That’s all they are and all they’ve ever been.

Actually modern circles (nicknamed "saucer nests") began in Australia in the 1960s.

Roughly circular areas of flattened crops becoming curios for local news started in the 17th Century - well before Doug and Dave.

Obviously all the complex patterns, and basically everything that isn't a very rough circle are artificially-made hoaxes, but there's enough evidence to suggest some of those rough circles can be made by natural means - winds, or animals nesting.

I've actually seen this happen myself - stuff in a field get battered flat by vicious crosswinds having been channelled into one small area by the lie of the land. (No supernatural forces, flying saucers, *or* men with boards in sight!)

It's just that people who see something like that, or recognise the animal behaviour as the cause of some flattened crops, just go "oh, the wind's wrecked some of that barley" or "those hares are frisky this month" and don't think "wow, a crop circle!" It's only post-90s townies who go "hey, that's a crop circle!"

So there is a natural type too.

 

[scotpens]

^^ Thanks for the info. It all reminds me of another so-called “paranormal” phenomenon, those allegedly mysterious cattle mutilations.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I suspected that the cattle mutilations are/were black-ops testing of cattle tissue for radionuclide contamination from A-bomb testing, 'though why they would decide to do it that sneaky and dishonest way without compensating the farmers beats me. Perhaps they didn't want to spook the general population and destroy the cattle industry. ETA: Blowflies seems the more sensible cause, albeit prosaic. As for the UFO video, it looks like a bunch of balloons that got away and that's about it. The altitude and azimuth data doesn't appear to update like I expect it should, which is why I tend to think it's more likely a fake - possibly dressed up existing footage.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

I find it interesting that the azimuth, elevation, and range data displayed do not correlate with camera or object movement.

The "radar data" line looks like someone playing with a spectrum analyzer like an HP 496.


FauxYooFoeFoo.