"That doesn't count!"

[Oblivion165]

Picard being bald even when he was a cadet at the Academy. That's really the only thing for me, but even that I can explain away like so many other things in Trek.

If your talking about the episode where Q takes Picard back in time to give him a second chance at his encounter with the Nausicaans; Q clearly stated that everyone else would see him as he appeared in the academy.


EDIT: As for what I count: All TV Episodes and Movies. A lot of the books seem to do things just because they can or just to bring in people to read them. I tried to read some of the comics but the quality just seemed low. The ones I found looked like they came inside a mcdonalds kids meal and didn't have the adult themes I watch trek for.

Sometimes its hard to keep it all straight with all the changed details over time. IE: pilot episode of voyager where the ship can heal itself.

 

[BillJ]

But Earth was the catalyst and if we buy into Enterprise, an American starship captain was central to that. So, for me, the 'U.S.S.' designation for ships is merely a nod to an American's contributions to the Federations founding.

Or perhaps the founding worlds found the American naval structure the most functional for a space fleet, which is why they lifted the rank structure wholesale from the U.S. Navy and brought the ship prefix right along with it.

In the real world, it's an American TV show and the writers are going to use the military structure they're familiar with.

And to be honest, anything other than U.S.S. or H.M.S. sounds like shit.

 

[BillJ]

Picard being bald even when he was a cadet at the Academy. That's really the only thing for me, but even that I can explain away like so many other things in Trek.

If your talking about the episode where Q takes Picard back in time to give him a second chance at his encounter with the Nausicaans; Q clearly stated that everyone else would see him as he appeared in the academy.


EDIT: As for what I count: All TV Episodes and Movies. A lot of the books seem to do things just because they can or just to bring in people to read them. I tried to read some of the comics but the quality just seemed low. The ones I found looked like they came inside a mcdonalds kids meal and didn't have the adult themes I watch trek for.

Sometimes its hard to keep it all straight with all the changed details over time. IE: pilot episode of voyager where the ship can heal itself.

I think he's talking about the picture of a bald Picard at the Academy from Nemesis.

 

[Oblivion165]

Picard being bald even when he was a cadet at the Academy. That's really the only thing for me, but even that I can explain away like so many other things in Trek.

If your talking about the episode where Q takes Picard back in time to give him a second chance at his encounter with the Nausicaans; Q clearly stated that everyone else would see him as he appeared in the academy.


EDIT: As for what I count: All TV Episodes and Movies. A lot of the books seem to do things just because they can or just to bring in people to read them. I tried to read some of the comics but the quality just seemed low. The ones I found looked like they came inside a mcdonalds kids meal and didn't have the adult themes I watch trek for.

Sometimes its hard to keep it all straight with all the changed details over time. IE: pilot episode of voyager where the ship can heal itself.

I think he's talking about the picture of a bald Picard at the Academy from Nemesis.

Oh I see...I haven't seen Nemesis well since Nemesis and don't recall seeing that.

EDIT:

Oh man that's terrible. Not to mention that they've showed him in the academy with hair.

 

[Skywalker]

For me, pretty much all of VOY and TATV "didn't happen."

 

[Sci]

EDIT:

Moving the "USS" debate to the "Only Earth names for starships?" thread. Seems more appropriate there.

 

[T'Girl]

Oh I see...I haven't seen Nemesis well since Nemesis and don't recall seeing that.

[snip]

Oh man that's terrible. Not to mention that they've showed him in the academy with hair.

The photo was on screen for only a few seconds, easy to miss.

My private take is that the photo is of a first year cadet Picard, and the academy at that time shaved the heads of all first year cadets upon entry. By the time we see young Picard again, it is later and his follicles have grown out.

The shaving practice had been discontinued by the time Wesley entered the academy.

 

[Sci]

Oh I see...I haven't seen Nemesis well since Nemesis and don't recall seeing that.

[snip]

Oh man that's terrible. Not to mention that they've showed him in the academy with hair.

The photo was on screen for only a few seconds, easy to miss.

My private take is that the photo is of a first year cadet Picard, and the academy at that time shaved the heads of all first year cadets upon entry. By the time we see young Picard again, it is later and his follicles have grown out.

The shaving practice had been discontinued by the time Wesley entered the academy.

I think it's simpler just to presume that medical science has produced a "cure" for baldness by the 24th Century, and that thus being bald or not bald is a fashion choice that someone can go back and forth on throughout his life.

 

[BillJ]

I think it's simpler just to presume that medical science has produced a "cure" for baldness by the 24th Century, and that thus being bald or not bald is a fashion choice that someone can go back and forth on throughout his life.

How is that simpler that "he shaved his head" for whatever reason?

 

[Sci]

I think it's simpler just to presume that medical science has produced a "cure" for baldness by the 24th Century, and that thus being bald or not bald is a fashion choice that someone can go back and forth on throughout his life.

How is that simpler that "he shaved his head" for whatever reason?

It's simpler than T'Girl's proposal because it doesn't require all of Starfleet Academy to institute a "shaved head" requirement after it had had no such policy previously, and to then reverse course later.

 

[Snowden]

How is that simpler that "he shaved his head" for whatever reason?

He might have been digging some ska by the time


I guess I'll have to hide under my desk after posting this, but I must admit that actually the entire series of TOS is kinda meh to me. The depiction of women is disgusting, even though it doesn't differ from the way they did in other productions of the time, but The Cage had already showed how Star Trek could have done it.

Same for the first series of TNG. I still don't like that whole miniskirt thingy, it should be a uniform! And a uniform in which you should be feeling comfortably - which a miniskirt, for all I can guess, isn't. At least as a uniform. But on the other hand, I'm a dude, so how can I know?

Plus I have my issue with TVH. It's not that the eighties hadn't had U2 and Live Aid. Not that I object any activism, but it's so "Oh, let's have some pity and then take another bite of that tasty whopper." It's collecting billions without any criticism of the structures in which that whole perversion takes place, and Star Trek often does the latter, but not in that movie, plus the lamest time travelling slapstick they could have come up with.

And last not least. Ferengi. Because jews. It makes me one hell of nauseous whenever I see these guys walk around in Deep Space Nine. I didn't want to believe it for a long time, but I've just seen the conference scene in The Nagus, and it reminded me of a piece of literature that has brought death to millions... yes, I know why I had a bad feeling about them when I've seen them the first time. I didn't have it because of what they were doing, but because of how they were portrayed. The Ferengi are one of the things that make me shake my head and say, no, that can't be Star Trek.

On the other hand, I don't have that much of a problem with POF since even though it is said that the third Reich had been the most efficient earth society that had ever existed if it just hadn't been for the shoah, it is also easy to see that the genocide will inevitably happen under said premises.

And not to forget the earth centrism, but I guess that's a question of cost.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

And last not least. Ferengi. Because jews. It makes me one hell of nauseous whenever I see these guys walk around in Deep Space Nine. I didn't want to believe it for a long time, but I've just seen the conference scene in The Nagus, and it reminded me of a piece of literature that has brought death to millions... yes, I know why I had a bad feeling about them when I've seen them the first time. I didn't have it because of what they were doing, but because of how they were portrayed. The Ferengi are one of the things that make me shake my head and say, no, that can't be Star Trek..

I have to say, as a Jew, I've never seen the Jewish-Ferengi connection. I always saw them as a commentary on extreme capitolism, nothing more. I was shocked when I heard people thought they were antisemitic.. and I've never been convinced by the argument at all.

 

[Xhiandra]

I'm not jewish, but I never saw Ferengi as jews either, just, as the previous poster said, extreme capitalists.
Bajorans, on the other hand... a spiritual people that was slaughtered by the fascist/militaristic Cardassian Empire occupation force... hard not to see a connection there.

 

[Sci]

I guess I'll have to hide under my desk after posting this, but I must admit that actually the entire series of TOS is kinda meh to me. The depiction of women is disgusting, even though it doesn't differ from the way they did in other productions of the time, but The Cage had already showed how Star Trek could have done it.

Well, "The Cage" isn't all that much better than the rest of TOS. Pike remarks that he's not used to a woman on the bridge, Number One excluded. So there's this assumption Roddenberry seemed to have been making when he wrote "The Cage," that even centuries from the 1960s, the military would be a male-dominated institution and female officers would be rare. He still envisioned a male-dominated society.

Fortunately, his assumptions about female inequality in TOS seem to have been so taken for granted that they aren't usually explicitly stated, so we modern viewers can retcon things a bit and pretend that Starfleet is egalitarian.

And last not least. Ferengi. Because jews. It makes me one hell of nauseous whenever I see these guys walk around in Deep Space Nine. I didn't want to believe it for a long time, but I've just seen the conference scene in The Nagus, and it reminded me of a piece of literature that has brought death to millions...

You do realize that Ira Steven Behr and Peter Allen Fields have talked about how that scene -- indeed, most of -- "The Nagus" was based on The Godfather, right?

 

[sonak]

I'm not jewish, but I never saw Ferengi as jews either, just, as the previous poster said, extreme capitalists.
Bajorans, on the other hand... a spiritual people that was slaughtered by the fascist/militaristic Cardassian Empire occupation force... hard not to see a connection there.

Agreed. The Bajorans seem a more natural fit for the Jewish connection to me. Especially with the "Chain of Command" background on the Cardassians and their history that makes them sound like they got the model from the Weimar Republic-to-Nazi Germany transition. And the "labor camps" and the "five million" Bajoran casualties.


I've always enjoyed the "who is this race a stand-in for?" game in Trek, though. Ever since the TOS Klingons and the USSR Cold War thing.

 

[Snowden]

I have to say, as a Jew, I've never seen the Jewish-Ferengi connection. I always saw them as a commentary on extreme capitolism, nothing more. I was shocked when I heard people thought they were antisemitic.. and I've never been convinced by the argument at all.

I'm sorry if I triggered something; it wasn't my intention.

I'm not jewish, but I never saw Ferengi as jews either, just, as the previous poster said, extreme capitalists.
Bajorans, on the other hand... a spiritual people that was slaughtered by the fascist/militaristic Cardassian Empire occupation force... hard not to see a connection there.

You do realize that Ira Steven Behr and Peter Allen Fields have talked about how that scene -- indeed, most of -- "The Nagus" was based on The Godfather, right?

I didn't know the latter, but I gave it a thought, each of your replies, and then came to my mind that I couldn't have been any more stupid assuming that... I think my rear yells for a footprint
After all, even though the authors don't always use metaphors subtle enough to meet the sensitivity of a topic, they would never be so blatant. I shouldn't have thought that bad of Star Trek writers.
The thing about Bajorans is something I had read about before, and the contradiction is solved best if I just dismiss the Ferengi.
However I keep thinking that they are a portrait of a real earth people, and that is, based upon Sci's comment: Italians. Or more likely their governments...

Well, "The Cage" isn't all that much better than the rest of TOS. Pike remarks that he's not used to a woman on the bridge, Number One excluded. So there's this assumption Roddenberry seemed to have been making when he wrote "The Cage," that even centuries from the 1960s, the military would be a male-dominated institution and female officers would be rare. He still envisioned a male-dominated society.

Fortunately, his assumptions about female inequality in TOS seem to have been so taken for granted that they aren't usually explicitly stated, so we modern viewers can retcon things a bit and pretend that Starfleet is egalitarian.

Most of the time, even the younger series are not as egalitarian as one should expect of a human society 300 years from now.

At least in The Cage women are allowed to wear pants and not stripper dresses, and Number One is still way more self-confident than most of the women in Kirk's Star Trek.

There are still some things in TOS that kind of boggle me, but most of them are based on the ways they used to design their sceneries and props back then.

I forgot to mention the entire conspiracy plot in the first TNG series. It's never mentioned again and it has not the slightest influence on anything occurring later on, it's just as if it had never happened; something stretching so far should have left some, er, marks in SF's hierarchical structures, but it just doesn't seem so.

 

[Relayer1]

Jews ?

I always saw the Ferengi as a satirical comment on the American dream - the 'anyone can make it' but in reality it involves progressing from exploited to exploiter...

But maybe that's just a symptom of my worldview !

 

[CoveTom]

Not unless they plan to reboot it with a starship other than the Enterprise, anyway. The term "U.S.S. Enterprise" is a registered trademark of CBS now (earlier, it belonged to Paramount for a number of years).

Apparently the U.S. Navy was allowed to continue using the name.

Seriously.

Yeah, I'd love to CBS try to actually enforce that trademark claim... Not likely...

 

[Therin of Andor]

The first was that Picard was a cue ball in star fleet, but he grew hair as he got older.

Take a stroll through any university. Shaved heads are very popular in young people on their first stint away from home.

 

[Captain Rob]

Not unless they plan to reboot it with a starship other than the Enterprise, anyway. The term "U.S.S. Enterprise" is a registered trademark of CBS now (earlier, it belonged to Paramount for a number of years).

Apparently the U.S. Navy was allowed to continue using the name.

Seriously.

Yeah, I'd love to CBS try to actually enforce that trademark claim... Not likely...

If you look real hard at the fantail of the USS Enterprise CVN-65. You can see a tiny "TM" after the last "e". Tiny as in 12 inch letters.