That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzon

[knowthyself]

Hey everyone. There is this thing about Nemesis that bugs me that I don't recall ever being addressed on the board.

That bit near the end when Picard impails Shinzon... Picard just kind of stands there while the big weapon continues to charge. So my question is, why does he just stand there kind of staring off blankly?

Obviously the filmakers were trying to go for something here, to make us as the audience feel something but what was it?

The Picard that I know, that we all know, would have done something, anything to stop that weapon. He wouldn't just stand there.

Any thoughts?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

IMO, he was in shock. He had just murdered a younger version of himself.

Picard probably also never met someone who was so intent, so driven on killing him that he impaled himself even further to get to him. And that person was another version of Jean-Luc Picard.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

^ Exactly. Like, "WTF would I have to go through to end up like that?"

Sure, Picard has an idea what Shinzon experienced because he had it explained to him, but he really didn't know.

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Obviously the filmakers were trying to go for something here, to make us as the audience feel something but what was it?

The filmmakers wanted to feel like Data should step in and die in order to save the newly wussy Picard's derrière.

The Picard that I know, that we all know, would have done something, anything to stop that weapon. He wouldn't just stand there.

I agree.

 

[shivkala]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

I also took it as Picard recognizing that he was going to die also. Sure, he knew where the shuttlebay was, sort of, but he didn't have Data to open it. Same for the transporters, he probably didn't know where they were. So, in my opinion, he's resigning him to what he has to do, taking a moment, granted, a poorly timed moment, to come to that conclusion that he was going to die.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Picard (thinking) "You know what? This all reminds me a Shakespearean play I once read ... oh yes, deactivate the super weapon, where is my head today?"

 

[knowthyself]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

So, in my opinion, he's resigning him to what he has to do, taking a moment, granted, a poorly timed moment, to come to that conclusion that he was going to die.

I guess that makes sense. I nearly leap at the screen though every time that I see Nemesis saying, "move!!!"

 

[DonIago]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Really? I'd think you'd get used to it after a few viewings.

 

[TheMurph]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Though it has been awhile since I've forced myself to watch Nemesis, that scene is one that drives me bonkers every time I see it. I always want to reach in to the screen and slap Picard around a few times to move with a sense of urgency.

 

[sonak]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

it is an annoying scene. It makes Picard look like a dangerously irresponsible idiot. When there's an urgent countdown to beat is not the time to be taking personal moments to reflect on the philosophical significance of what you've just experienced.

 

[knowthyself]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

it is an annoying scene. It makes Picard look like a dangerously irresponsible idiot. When there's an urgent countdown to beat is not the time to be taking personal moments to reflect on the philosophical significance of what you've just experienced.

this

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

I also took it as Picard recognizing that he was going to die also. Sure, he knew where the shuttlebay was, sort of, but he didn't have Data to open it. Same for the transporters, he probably didn't know where they were. So, in my opinion, he's resigning him to what he has to do, taking a moment, granted, a poorly timed moment, to come to that conclusion that he was going to die.

That is exactly what I thought. And it was the only bit in the movie I found to be emotionally meaningful.

 

[eepruls]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

One thing that annoys me in this film is how they implied Shinzon and Picard were the same person and how Picard struggled with understanding how he would've turned out the same as Shinzon if he had lived his life. I mean, sure, they were genetically identical but so are identical twins. Life experiences define a person (the 'nurture' part of nature vs. nurture).

Picard and Shinzon, while genetically identical, have completely different life experiences and of course would be different people. All the struggling with whether Picard would've turned out the same is just silly. Of course he would've. If I had parents who were Nazis or religious crazies, I'd probably be one too. I wouldn't be the person I am now.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

One thing that annoys me in this film is how they implied Shinzon and Picard were the same person and how Picard struggled with understanding how he would've turned out the same as Shinzon if he had lived his life.

They did??

 

[eepruls]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

One thing that annoys me in this film is how they implied Shinzon and Picard were the same person and how Picard struggled with understanding how he would've turned out the same as Shinzon if he had lived his life.

They did??

Um, yeah. Picard and Data have a discussion about this directly in the communications room. Picard and Shinzon talk specifically about it too. They keep bringing up the point that Shinzon could be Picard and Picard could've been Shinzon if he had his life. At one point a metaphor of a mirror is used.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

I guess it was just so stupid that my mind refused to take it in.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

I saw it as Picard having reached the breaking point. After all the shit he's gone through in his life, crashing another Enterprise and killing an evil Mini-Me (whom he'd spent the whole movie trying to convince he could be more than a psychotic despot) was too much for the poor old guy to handle.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Remember how he was staring blankly at nothing after hearing his nephew had died in a fire? It was like that.

 

[gastrof]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Remember how he was staring blankly at nothing after hearing his nephew had died in a fire? It was like that.

And I think that's the point.

Shinzon was, in some repects, Picard's son. His offspring, at least. No pun intended, but the guy was the only "Next Generation" Picard had.

And he'd just killed him.

His own blood, dead at his own hands.

Not a nice day.

 

[RyanKCR]

Re: That bit where Picard stares off in Nemesis after impailing Shinzo

Picard was in shock. Both because he realized that Shinzon was right then he might have turned out like Shinzon with the same life experiences and at the death of Shinzon, the wasted potential.