TFF vs. TUC Enterprise Shots

[CoveTom]

Yeah it’s truly unfortunate that despite the beauty of the model itself, it only really looked very good during TMP, and certain parts of TWOK. The iridescent paint in TMP was dulled down and they presumably had to add some pencilling and surface detail to the model due to the dulled-down look of the Aztec. Combine that with lighting conditions and it becomes underwhelming.

Just a few short years after TUC, the enterprise-d filming model looked pretty spectacular in generations, and alot of the lighting was really well done

It's probably not a coincidence that ILM was involved in the creation and initial filming of the Enterprise-D model for "Encounter at Farpoint." So they knew the model, it had been designed to their way of doing things, and they knew how to light and film it.

For the refit model, which was made by Magicam and then shot by Trumbull and his team, I don't think the ILM folks ever truly knew what to do with it. They had a very different way of working than Trumbull and, as I understand it, he would not offer any assistance to them when they were working on the subsequent films. It's a shame. The refit model is one of the most beautiful minatures ever constructed for film, and ILM certainly has plenty of talented people, but the two just didn't mesh.

 

[rizop]

It's probably not a coincidence that ILM was involved in the creation and initial filming of the Enterprise-D model for "Encounter at Farpoint." So they knew the model, it had been designed to their way of doing things, and they knew how to light and film it.

For the refit model, which was made by Magicam and then shot by Trumbull and his team, I don't think the ILM folks ever truly knew what to do with it. They had a very different way of working than Trumbull and, as I understand it, he would not offer any assistance to them when they were working on the subsequent films. It's a shame. The refit model is one of the most beautiful minatures ever constructed for film, and ILM certainly has plenty of talented people, but the two just didn't mesh.

Yeah that’s certainly a shame about Trumbull. Keeping that external dental mirror lighting rig would’ve been painful enough. It’s quite honestly amazing that they used the refit in all 6 movies considering their apparent distaste for it.

 

[JamesRye]

OK, it's taken me ages to find the source, but I have it! The off the shelf AMT kit model was 'apparently' used in a blink and you'll miss it scene on the Excelsior viewscreen. And I have a source!

Star Trek: 10 Secrets Of The Enterprise A You Need To Know

No bloody A, B, C, or D – no wait.

whatculture.com

If anyone can find a better source, I'd love to read more on this.

 

[trekkier]

Wasn't the enterprise sprayed white for the universal studios show? I feel like I remember reading that. I THINK it was between TVH and TFF

 

[Vger23]

Wasn't the enterprise sprayed white for the universal studios show? I feel like I remember reading that. I THINK it was between TVH and TFF

I believe Shatner mentioned that in several of the "making of" books that are out there. At least one whole side of the model had been painted white.

 

[UssGlenn]

Wasn't the enterprise sprayed white for the universal studios show? I feel like I remember reading that. I THINK it was between TVH and TFF

Half white, for the bit at 5:25

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[Tosk]

According to Bran Ferren it was done before ST5...

BRAN FERREN (visual effects supervisor, Associates & Ferren)

There was a lot of time wasted on this film. Ultimately, every model we received from Paramount had to be completely refurbished prior to shooting. We had to have Greg Jein build some new ones while we created five planet landscapes and moons as well. One entire side of the Enterprise model was spray-painted matte gray, destroying the meticulous original paint job. We had to go in and fix it before we could shoot it, which took two painters and assistant about six weeks to do.

I can't remember where I read it (so grain of salt on this one) but didn't ILM also say that when they got the model for ST6, someone had hacked off the fiber-optic bundle that came out of the shooting mount, and they had to go in and replace it all?

It's very easy to believe Ferren fucked the model up because his footage in ST5 makes the Enterprise look like shit a lot of the time...but maybe that's unfair, and it really was whoever did the attraction stuff. I dunno.

 

[David cgc]

I can't remember where I read it (so grain of salt on this one) but didn't ILM also say that when they got the model for ST6, someone had hacked off the fiber-optic bundle that came out of the shooting mount, and they had to go in and replace it all?

I don't remember if that was the reason, but I do recall reading that they rewired the model (and possibly replaced the actual lights?) for TUC, and took the opportunity to calibrate all the internal lights to each other to make them the correct relative brightness, so they could shoot them all in one pass, rather than multiple passes that were exposed differently for each set of lights. Which, come to think of it, might also contribute to the model looking a bit flatter in the film.

 

[Vger23]

According to Bran Ferren it was done before ST5...



I can't remember where I read it (so grain of salt on this one) but didn't ILM also say that when they got the model for ST6, someone had hacked off the fiber-optic bundle that came out of the shooting mount, and they had to go in and replace it all?

It's very easy to believe Ferren fucked the model up because his footage in ST5 makes the Enterprise look like shit a lot of the time...but maybe that's unfair, and it really was whoever did the attraction stuff. I dunno.

The Enterprise looks like shit in TFF because Ferren had no idea how to light it properly, they sucked at motion control photography, and it looks like they didn't composite or give the scenes the exposures they needed to look right.

Half the time, the Enterprise is either static, or it looks like a cardboard cutout being slid across the screen. So unbelievably frustrating.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah it’s truly unfortunate that despite the beauty of the model itself, it only really looked very good during TMP, and certain parts of TWOK. The iridescent paint in TMP was dulled down and they presumably had to add some pencilling and surface detail to the model due to the dulled-down look of the Aztec. Combine that with lighting conditions and it becomes underwhelming.

There are a few shots in the other flims that look halfway decent, but honestly not many.

The Enterprise entering spacedock looks nice in SFS, as does the first shot of the ship not at warp, when Sulu says "We are secure from warp speed, now entering Genesis Sector." The Enterprise is lit really weird in TSFS, giving it almost a blue appearance.

The "money shot" from TVH looks nice, with the ship passing by the camera as it exits spacedock at the very end.

The shot of the Enterprise leaving spacedock (seems to be a theme here with spacedock) in TUC is really nice.

 

[CoveTom]

The Enterprise looks like shit in TFF because Ferren had no idea how to light it properly, they sucked at motion control photography, and it looks like they didn't composite or give the scenes the exposures they needed to look right.

Half the time, the Enterprise is either static, or it looks like a cardboard cutout being slid across the screen. So unbelievably frustrating.

Ferren did a far worse job than ILM on many counts, of course, but I don't think ILM had any idea how to light the model properly either. But at least ILM knew how to do motion control well.

There are a few shots in the other flims that look halfway decent, but honestly not many.

The Enterprise entering spacedock looks nice in SFS, as does the first shot of the ship not at warp, when Sulu says "We are secure from warp speed, now entering Genesis Sector." The Enterprise is lit really weird in TSFS, giving it almost a blue appearance.

The "money shot" from TVH looks nice, with the ship passing by the camera as it exits spacedock at the very end.

The shot of the Enterprise leaving spacedock (seems to be a theme here with spacedock) in TUC is really nice.

I agree the scenes of the Enterprise entering spacedock in TSFS are pretty well done. The only thing I notice at times is the matte lines around the ship, but that's understandable since they are far easier to hide against a black space background than with the spacedock interiors behind the ship.

I also like the shots of the Enterprise-A at the end of TVH. I think those were done really well. I think it's probably the best that model looks post-TMP.

Overall, though, I thought there were very mixed results with the Enterprise in TWOK and then it looked fairly bad in most of the scenes from TSFS and TUC. Of course, TVH had no shots of the Enterprise (save for stock footage) except at the end, and TFF was the atrocity committed by Ferren.

It really does seem like Trumbull and his team were the only ones who could figure out how to do justice to that particular model.

 

[FormerLurker]

Half the time, the Enterprise is either static, or it looks like a cardboard cutout being slid across the screen. So unbelievably frustrating.

As I said earlier in the thread, it was my impression that they literally slid a cardboard cutout across the screen. Someone in the know attested to that.

ETA: excuse me. That was another thread.

 

[CoveTom]

I know little about Hollywood production practices. But when a studio contracts with a company to provide visual effects, is there not some provision in the contract that the effects have to meet some minimum standard of quality? For TFF, is there no way that Paramount could have either demanded Ferren fix the effects to make them passable or refused to pay him and gone elsewhere? I mean, we're talking about motion control work with pre-built models here. They weren't exactly reinventing the wheel on that film. The product that was delivered was so beneath acceptable as to be laughable.

 

[Tosk]

No more than you can dock an actor's pay just because you thought they didn't act well enough.

The finished VFX are usually among the last pieces to be put in place. If the final shots are no good it's too damn bad, because the movie is getting released in X weeks.

 

[Vger23]

I actually watched TFF last night with my youngest son, and the other thing that's awful are the placeholders of random starfields where it's clear a transition shot of an Enterprise fly-by was supposed to be there. Are you kidding me? They couldn't even film a simple pass by the camera like 1000's of other shots in the franchise?

 

[Vger23]

I think this is the best non-TMP shot of the Enterprise in the whole movie franchise.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Saved from ebay listings:

And....that scene above was used for a reprint of the first 'New Voyages' volume: