I noticed that the one-off female Efrosian Starfleet character Dalit Sarai shares a first name with the Dalit, aka untouchables of India. Was that intentional?
Spoilers TF: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack Review Thread
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^ No. "Dalit" was the name of an Israeli (or maybe Yemeni) waitress I once had a crush on in college.
^Gotcha. Thanks, David.
Not the best title, but maybe it has more resonance in German than its translation suggests. I really wish they'd ask me about these titles sometimes…
I will pass it on in the Cross Cult forum. I don´t know if the title is final. And Mr. Rohde is currently busy with preparing the Khan novels for the printing company. And we all are dying to get our hands on them. And there is no problem with the Khan titles.
"Losing battle" was re-translated by me, and I don´t have a say as to the title. I don´t know Mr. Humberg´s motivation behind his choice.
Either way, I´m looking forward to reading it. After that I can start with Disavowed.
I can always ask them directly. I'm friends with Markus and Christian on Facebook.
I finished reading this last week, and loved it.
David Mack has been one of my favorite Trek writers for a long time, and this is another awesome book from him.
I'm a big fan of both the storylines focused on Bashir, and the Andorian fertility crisis, and I really liked the way the two were combined here, along with the main arc of The Fall.
We got a lot of nice appearances from characters we haven't seen much of lately like Drs. Lense and Pulaski and Shar.
I knew going in that this one resolved the fertility crisis, but the story still held my attention, and I thought it was pretty interesting seeing how they finally did it. I'm a huge Vanguard fan, so I loved that the Metagenome played such a big part in the story. I love the way modern Trek Lit brings together elements from all of the different series.
David Mack has been one of my favorite Trek writers for a long time, and this is another awesome book from him.
I'm a big fan of both the storylines focused on Bashir, and the Andorian fertility crisis, and I really liked the way the two were combined here, along with the main arc of The Fall.
We got a lot of nice appearances from characters we haven't seen much of lately like Drs. Lense and Pulaski and Shar.
I knew going in that this one resolved the fertility crisis, but the story still held my attention, and I thought it was pretty interesting seeing how they finally did it. I'm a huge Vanguard fan, so I loved that the Metagenome played such a big part in the story. I love the way modern Trek Lit brings together elements from all of the different series.
Very enjoyable book. I knew a little of what’s going to happen from the Takedown novel but it didn’t ruin the experience in any way.
It’s a shame the Enterprise wasn’t apart of this since they like a good mutiny every now and then. They would probably get away with it as well.
Is it me or did Akaar know what Bashir was doing on Bajor from the start? He turned down that operatives theories very quickly and seemed annoyed when she went behind his back to the President.
So now Bashir is in Section 31. I know his plan is to destroy them and that they eventually do go away but I hope he doesn’t, but tries to be useful and help out. I’d love to see what it’s like for an operative day-to-day there and what sort of starships they use. I keep thinking they have Vengence like starships with heavy stealth and defensives.
It’s a shame the Enterprise wasn’t apart of this since they like a good mutiny every now and then. They would probably get away with it as well.
Is it me or did Akaar know what Bashir was doing on Bajor from the start? He turned down that operatives theories very quickly and seemed annoyed when she went behind his back to the President.
So now Bashir is in Section 31. I know his plan is to destroy them and that they eventually do go away but I hope he doesn’t, but tries to be useful and help out. I’d love to see what it’s like for an operative day-to-day there and what sort of starships they use. I keep thinking they have Vengence like starships with heavy stealth and defensives.
Just finished this volume and it was everything that I wanted regarding the resolution to the Andorian fertility crisis. I always expect the main characters to solve everything and it was a surprise to me when Voyager was still on the air when they DIDN'T cure the Vidiians of their plague since I assumed that was how Star Trek was supposed to work. We had to wait until a side-line by Jason Alexander for a resolution to their plot.
Some basic thoughts I had about things:
1:] I'm actually 100% behind President Isran on his embargo on Andor and think he made the right call. Yes, I know he's evil and gets brought down for his involvement in evil but that doesn't mean it was wrong. The present government of Andoria had made attacks on the Enterprise and was involved with terrorist activities. It's a rogue state and the Federation has better places to spend its resources than prop up a terrorist government. If they don't want to be part of the Federation. Fine. Remove them of all benefits of being part of the Federation. Mind you, I'm heavily influenced by a British friend of mine who only wishes the consequences of a certain movement fell on the people who supported it.
2:] I'm honestly surprised that playing around with the Meta-Genome didn't have horrific consequences. The Federation stole the Shedai Meta-Genome and the entirety of Vanguard is about what an amoral evil action it was to try to get it at all costs. The Federation has no right to the Shedai's technology and could never understand it even if they tried. They're basically the Pakleds and a bunch of cavemen playing with an atomic reactor. Honestly, if the original characters had any sense, they would have destroyed their samples. Oh well, technology-theft worked out for them this time.
3:] I'm a little surprised Ezri was so heavily beating the drum of Starfleet loyalty in the story and Julian derailing his career. The previous Daxes include people who constantly went rogue and went on crazy ass missions for whatever government they were working for at the time. We knew she'd eventually come around and I look forward to finding out the consequences but it was still a hard sell to me.
4:] I'm a little confused about the Andorian governments motivations as I was under the impression its coalition was based around trying to avoid genetically altering the Andorians. I would have thought they'd have a more extremist reaction to all of this. Either that or have their own projects in the work to try to deal with things. Honestly, this is just the science nerd in me but you'd think the "Lost City of the Aenar" would have proven a better solution to the fertility crisis than the Meta-Genome. Wouldn't they be turning to the DNA of the long-dead Andorians before the mutation to find a cure?
5:] YAY for the return of Doctor Pulaski. I'm glad she got to play a role in the salvation of the Andorian people. I always liked Doctor Crusher more but that doesn't mean I didn't like Doctor Pulaski.
6:] I did like Bashir's attempts to do the right thing that, ironically, ended up more like a spy than his mission against the Breen. Seriously, he does an amazing amount of Cold War legwork and it's when he's decided to get OUT of the spy game. Yet he stole information, smuggled data, make local contacts, crossed borders, and more.
7:] I like Section 31 checking itself and going, "Of course we want Andor to be healed. We're not evil for the sake of being evil. We're evil for the sake of the Federation."
8:] The riot in the Senate hall was Roman and I loved it. Bravo.
9:] I kind of like the Typhon Pact members were confused by why the Andorians hadn't fixed the problem yet. They were expecting the ex-Federation member to act like the Federation. The idea they'd be duplicitous threw them and their plan for a loop.
Great book, David Mack! One of my favorites by you. I'm going to use the Andorian fertility crisis as a Star Trek Adventure for my roleplaying game group.
Some basic thoughts I had about things:
1:] I'm actually 100% behind President Isran on his embargo on Andor and think he made the right call. Yes, I know he's evil and gets brought down for his involvement in evil but that doesn't mean it was wrong. The present government of Andoria had made attacks on the Enterprise and was involved with terrorist activities. It's a rogue state and the Federation has better places to spend its resources than prop up a terrorist government. If they don't want to be part of the Federation. Fine. Remove them of all benefits of being part of the Federation. Mind you, I'm heavily influenced by a British friend of mine who only wishes the consequences of a certain movement fell on the people who supported it.
2:] I'm honestly surprised that playing around with the Meta-Genome didn't have horrific consequences. The Federation stole the Shedai Meta-Genome and the entirety of Vanguard is about what an amoral evil action it was to try to get it at all costs. The Federation has no right to the Shedai's technology and could never understand it even if they tried. They're basically the Pakleds and a bunch of cavemen playing with an atomic reactor. Honestly, if the original characters had any sense, they would have destroyed their samples. Oh well, technology-theft worked out for them this time.
3:] I'm a little surprised Ezri was so heavily beating the drum of Starfleet loyalty in the story and Julian derailing his career. The previous Daxes include people who constantly went rogue and went on crazy ass missions for whatever government they were working for at the time. We knew she'd eventually come around and I look forward to finding out the consequences but it was still a hard sell to me.
4:] I'm a little confused about the Andorian governments motivations as I was under the impression its coalition was based around trying to avoid genetically altering the Andorians. I would have thought they'd have a more extremist reaction to all of this. Either that or have their own projects in the work to try to deal with things. Honestly, this is just the science nerd in me but you'd think the "Lost City of the Aenar" would have proven a better solution to the fertility crisis than the Meta-Genome. Wouldn't they be turning to the DNA of the long-dead Andorians before the mutation to find a cure?
5:] YAY for the return of Doctor Pulaski. I'm glad she got to play a role in the salvation of the Andorian people. I always liked Doctor Crusher more but that doesn't mean I didn't like Doctor Pulaski.
6:] I did like Bashir's attempts to do the right thing that, ironically, ended up more like a spy than his mission against the Breen. Seriously, he does an amazing amount of Cold War legwork and it's when he's decided to get OUT of the spy game. Yet he stole information, smuggled data, make local contacts, crossed borders, and more.
7:] I like Section 31 checking itself and going, "Of course we want Andor to be healed. We're not evil for the sake of being evil. We're evil for the sake of the Federation."
8:] The riot in the Senate hall was Roman and I loved it. Bravo.
9:] I kind of like the Typhon Pact members were confused by why the Andorians hadn't fixed the problem yet. They were expecting the ex-Federation member to act like the Federation. The idea they'd be duplicitous threw them and their plan for a loop.
Great book, David Mack! One of my favorites by you. I'm going to use the Andorian fertility crisis as a Star Trek Adventure for my roleplaying game group.
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Though it was published in 2013, having re-read this book recently just seems eerie to me because of recent/ current events in certain countries that are acting on motives like withholding materials that can help people who are ill improve and get better just for political gain. Particularly when referring to Ishan Anjar (Baras Rodirya) and the Andorian government unwilling to provide the Andorian people with the cure to their fertility crisis and using it for political leverage, risking the lives of an entire civilization as a means to grab or maintain power. And Baras circumventing the chain of command by directly giving orders to starship captains without going through Starfleet Command I think is another reflection on that as well. Even with Akaar trying to keep matters from escalating Baras is just going to ignore him or anyone else making sense and just go full ahead anyway.
When Ezri first confronts Bashir in the Aventine’s brig I kinda wanna smack her when she’s making the excuse ‘the Andorians turned their backs on the Federation’. The Federation had info that could help them not die, they were angry, frightened and desperate. Three years after they secede from the UFP and there’s few people, or rather Starfleet officers, who get that? Though glad she regained her moral compass and helped save the species, I think it shows she’s grown and has improved as a captain and as a friend with Bashir.
Kinda wish there had been a part where O’Brien is upset that Bashir didn’t share what he was up to since they’re such good friends, but the book seemed packed anyway. Understandable if that couldn’t fit in.
Loved there was that one doctor of the group, Lemdock, who was so excited about their research that he might get them all compromised.
I understand this was to resolve the Andorian fertility crisis, though I’m unsure that’s entirely so because of the Andorian storyline in TTN: Fallen Gods. Maybe, if the powers that be deem it so, there could be a follow up to that for further resolution. And maybe bring back a certain member of the Riker family.
Overall, thought it was a terrific novel. It was great to put an end to the fertility crisis and further explore Bashir as a person, an officer, a spy, and a doctor, and see how far he’s willing to go to do the right thing, even if he has ulterior motives of his own. Like taking down Section 31.
The ending of chapter 3 reminded me of Pinky & the Brain. Part of me wishes Shar had said ‘NARF!’ at the end of the chapter. Lol.
When Ezri first confronts Bashir in the Aventine’s brig I kinda wanna smack her when she’s making the excuse ‘the Andorians turned their backs on the Federation’. The Federation had info that could help them not die, they were angry, frightened and desperate. Three years after they secede from the UFP and there’s few people, or rather Starfleet officers, who get that? Though glad she regained her moral compass and helped save the species, I think it shows she’s grown and has improved as a captain and as a friend with Bashir.
Kinda wish there had been a part where O’Brien is upset that Bashir didn’t share what he was up to since they’re such good friends, but the book seemed packed anyway. Understandable if that couldn’t fit in.
Loved there was that one doctor of the group, Lemdock, who was so excited about their research that he might get them all compromised.
I understand this was to resolve the Andorian fertility crisis, though I’m unsure that’s entirely so because of the Andorian storyline in TTN: Fallen Gods. Maybe, if the powers that be deem it so, there could be a follow up to that for further resolution. And maybe bring back a certain member of the Riker family.
Overall, thought it was a terrific novel. It was great to put an end to the fertility crisis and further explore Bashir as a person, an officer, a spy, and a doctor, and see how far he’s willing to go to do the right thing, even if he has ulterior motives of his own. Like taking down Section 31.
The ending of chapter 3 reminded me of Pinky & the Brain. Part of me wishes Shar had said ‘NARF!’ at the end of the chapter. Lol.
Oh, I re-read the whole mini-series, partly 'cause I was looking for quotable dialogue. Bit of a hobby. A Ceremony of Losses was just the first where I realized the comparison in that book, or any of the other novels in the series, to current events. Probably because it was the first with a more direct correlation with Baras and other individuals or organizations to today's real world, as opposed to being less involved in the story or being secretive. But thank you for the suggestion, Smiley!
The Poisoned Chalice was a good read too. But in relation to book #3, I enjoyed Riker, Vale, & Troi's maneuvering to get Bashir out of prison and make him as close to a free man as he could be. Also enjoyed the crossover between Nog & Tuvok.
One of the interesting things the stories of The Fall series parallel to real world is there are everyday people who agree with such maddening viewpoints by those in charge, like justifying the suffering of people. Which one would think goes against the principles organizations like Starfleet or the UFP stands for. I like that it explores grey areas like the people & society of the Federation are fallible enough to have a leader that will behave such as those of their enemies, and there are people who agree but don't see that or do see it but don't care. Though it makes me wonder how someone like Baras Rodirya got passed Section 31.
The Poisoned Chalice was a good read too. But in relation to book #3, I enjoyed Riker, Vale, & Troi's maneuvering to get Bashir out of prison and make him as close to a free man as he could be. Also enjoyed the crossover between Nog & Tuvok.
One of the interesting things the stories of The Fall series parallel to real world is there are everyday people who agree with such maddening viewpoints by those in charge, like justifying the suffering of people. Which one would think goes against the principles organizations like Starfleet or the UFP stands for. I like that it explores grey areas like the people & society of the Federation are fallible enough to have a leader that will behave such as those of their enemies, and there are people who agree but don't see that or do see it but don't care. Though it makes me wonder how someone like Baras Rodirya got passed Section 31.
I wonder if it has any thing to do with
Uraei. It seems like the AI could have prevented him from taking over if it wanted. Or maybe he just didn't matter enough in the big picture. /
One possibility is that Uraei was essentially able to predict the events of The Fall and so did not interfere, since it knew things would all work out in the end.
Another possibility is that Uraei just honestly missed Baras. That's not implausible -- it seems unlikely that Uraei was able to spread its program to Occupied Bajor, and Baras was able to steal Ishan's identity precisely because record-keeping was so shoddy and surviving records so fewer from the Occupation. If Baras has already stolen Ishan's identity by the time Uraei's program starts infiltrating Bajoran computer networks, then how is Uraei supposed to know "Ishan" isn't who he says he is? Even omnipresent computer programs have limits.
Another possibility is that Uraei just honestly missed Baras. That's not implausible -- it seems unlikely that Uraei was able to spread its program to Occupied Bajor, and Baras was able to steal Ishan's identity precisely because record-keeping was so shoddy and surviving records so fewer from the Occupation. If Baras has already stolen Ishan's identity by the time Uraei's program starts infiltrating Bajoran computer networks, then how is Uraei supposed to know "Ishan" isn't who he says he is? Even omnipresent computer programs have limits.
Just read this great story, Mack at his best, however I am surprised with the telepathic races that exist in the UFP that Ishan Anjar and Velk made it that far up the greasy pole of politics
Telepaths generally have ethics that preclude them from prying into people's inner thoughts without permission. Unless you're suggesting that presidential candidates would have to be vetted by telepaths before taking office. I don't know if a free society would demand that of a president, though. Heck, look at us. We don't even require a presidential candidate to disclose tax returns.
On the other hand, I could imagine that the Federation might make submitting to at least a shallow telepathic scan a mandatory requirement to hold Federation office, given that
Baras Rodiyra managed to assume the office of Federation Councillor and then the Federation Presidency Pro Tempore under a false identity, after having conspired to assassinate his predecessor