"Terraphiles" observtions (SPOILERS!!!)

[EJA]

Bought Michael Moorcock's new DW novel "The Coming of the Terraphiles" a few days ago and am currently about halfway through it. It's an interesting read so far, but I have noticed a couple of things in it which make me wonder if Moorcock really has a good enough grasp of the Whoniverse. As I said, I've not finished it yet so my worries could be totally unfounded, but I'd just like to talk to someone and see what they reckon.

First off, the narrative states that there is a massive black hole at the core of the Doctor's universe which appears to be linked somehow to the multiverse, but the classic Fifth Doctor serial "Terminus" showed us that the universal core is the residence of a timestation implied to originate in the previous universe and which inadvertantly created the current one. I, for one, can think of no way to easily reconcile this major discrepancy.

Moorcock also makes references to the Conjunction of the Million Spheres occuring in the Doctor's universe, and says that the Doctor is one of the few beings able to fully perceive the entire multiverse. There are also appearances by servants of Law and Chaos from other planes of existence, and at the part I'm currently at, the Doctor is bout to summon help from the Second Aether, i.e. outside the universe, which shouldn't be possible, given that the Time War made travel to and from alternate universes and parallel dimensions impossible, effectively cutting off the Doctor's reality from any other universes. This was a major plot point of stories like "Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel" and "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End."

I just wondered if anyone else had similar concerns over the liberties the book seems to be taking with established conventions of the Whoniverse?

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

My copy hasn't arrived yet, but my attitude is: let writers write what they want to write. Doctor Who has never had a particularly rigid continuity anyway, and the series contradicts itself all the time. There are no established conventions.

Anyway, once you've read the 1977 Doctor Who Annual, nothing else published under the banner of Doctor Who can ever seem strange.

 

[EJA]

I just believe that there are certain elements of the Whoniverse you cannot tamper with. What's gone before has to count in some way. That's why the Doctor suddenly being able to contact beings from the extradimensional realm of the Second Aether bothers me a little; recent TV stories have strongly indicated that this is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do in the current era. The contradiction of Terminus, a major story in that it set up the departure of Nyssa, is also a trifle troubling.

I would like to have seen the White and Black Guardians pop up, I've always felt that Moorcock could tie them into his Law and Chaos mythos effectively.

 

[captcalhoun]

Anyway, once you've read the 1977 Doctor Who Annual, nothing else published under the banner of Doctor Who can ever seem strange.

why's that?

 

[The]

The books have nothing to do with the television show, and vice-versa. So, in the book Doctor Who universe, there is a black hole at the center of the galaxy, and The Doctor is attuned to the higher-frequencies of the multiverse. There, problem solved...

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I just wondered if anyone else had similar concerns over the liberties the book seems to be taking with established conventions of the Whoniverse?

I dunno; Moorcock certainly loves the Judoon!

The Doctor and the Multiverse.

I didn't have a problem with the Multiverse in a Doctor Who novel, even though its casual appearance in Terraphiles runs counter to what we're told in "Journey's End," because the plot of Terraphiles requires the existence of the Multiverse. It's not just there as window dressing; the Multiverse itself causes some of the novel's events, especially during the middle third of the novel on the daffy journey from Peers(TM) to Miggea.

I thought, once I'd finished the book, that the Multiverse made for a logical extension of the fifth season's cracks in time and space. Reality, already weakened by Rose and the Daleks in the fourth season, broke apart completely in the fifth. Terraphiles worked for me as a "crack" story (one that falls between "The Lodger" and "The Pandorica Opens"); reality itself is fissuring, so naturally some alternate realities would "bleed" over into "our" universe.

The agents of Chaos and Law could be agents of the Guardians, or they could be agents of those above the Guardians. Either way, I don't find Moorcock's Lords of Law and Chaos to be at all inconsistent with Steve Parkhouse's take on the Whoniverse's cosmology from "Tides of Time."

And the idea that the Doctor can "see" the totality of the Multiverse isn't inconsistent with the hints that the seventh Doctor was "more than a Time Lord" ("Remembrance of the Daleks") or the eighth Doctor's ability to divine a person's future at the merest glance. The ninth Doctor can feel the turning of the Earth; the eleventh Doctor knows that Amy's history and existence is impossible. The Doctor's frame of reference is different than ours; naturally, he would see existence differently than we do.

Spoiler: There was a revelation in Terraphiles...

There was a revelation in Terraphiles that I was expecting, because it was something that I thought that Moorcock would[/i do (and it's one that **SPOILERS** Wikipedia gives as fact **SPOILERS**). And to my surprise, when Moorcock reached that revelation, he went and revealed something else entirely. Moorcock subverted my expectation, and he did it in a way that reinforces the Doctor's uniqueness and offers an explanation for why the Doctor can see the totality of the Multiverse.

I didn't have a problem making Terraphiles "fit" into the Whoniverse, Moorcock's Multiverse and all. (And it helps if you mentally edit Captain Cornelius into the Who character that Moorcock intended him to be.) Moorcock falls on the Steve Parkhouse/Christopher Bailey end of the Doctor Who writer spectrum, and that produces a richer universe.

I realize, though, that Terraphiles will not be to everyone's taste. That's just how it goes. *shrug*

And CaptCalhoun, here's a review of the '77 annual.

 

[captcalhoun]

sounds like someone was on something...

 

[EJA]

The Doctor and the Multiverse.

I didn't have a problem with the Multiverse in a Doctor Who novel, even though its casual appearance in Terraphiles runs counter to what we're told in "Journey's End," because the plot of Terraphiles requires the existence of the Multiverse. It's not just there as window dressing; the Multiverse itself causes some of the novel's events, especially during the middle third of the novel on the daffy journey from Peers(TM) to Miggea.

I thought, once I'd finished the book, that the Multiverse made for a logical extension of the fifth season's cracks in time and space. Reality, already weakened by Rose and the Daleks in the fourth season, broke apart completely in the fifth. Terraphiles worked for me as a "crack" story (one that falls between "The Lodger" and "The Pandorica Opens"); reality itself is fissuring, so naturally some alternate realities would "bleed" over into "our" universe.

Interesting idea, except that the interaction between the Whoniverse and other realms of the Multiverse is presented in the book as not being all that unusual. The Doctor makes a comment at one point regarding a cosmic phenomenon related to the Multiverse, that it's been there for so long, life in the universe has become used to it. He certainly doesn't see anything all that odd about Frank/Freddie Force and his Antimatter Men being able to pop into his continuum from their antimatter realm. I don't think it's anything to do with the Crack.

I probably wouldn't be all that bothered about the book disregarding Terminus, were it not for the fact that said story featured the character of Nyssa leaving, and I believe it was also part of the Black Guardian arc that had been running through that season?

The only explanation I can think of to reconcile much of the plot of Terraphiles is that at some point after Journey's End, something happened that reset some of the rules of the Whoniverse to a pre-Time War status, enabling trans-universal travel to become easier to accomplish. But a part of me also thinks "Nah, that's just stupid."

 

[JoeZhang]

The only explanation I can think of to reconcile much of the plot of Terraphiles is that at some point after Journey's End, something happened that reset some of the rules of the Whoniverse to a pre-Time War status, enabling trans-universal travel to become easier to accomplish. But a part of me also thinks "Nah, that's just stupid."

Who cares? I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

 

[The]

The only explanation I can think of to reconcile much of the plot of Terraphiles is that at some point after Journey's End, something happened that reset some of the rules of the Whoniverse to a pre-Time War status, enabling trans-universal travel to become easier to accomplish. But a part of me also thinks "Nah, that's just stupid."

Who cares? I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Agreed. I understand trying to work out continuity within the show. That's fun. But, trying to match up alternate media to Doctor Who's timeline is like trying to match up where the original Battlestar Galactica took place in the Star Trek timeline: It makes no sense.

As I said previously...

The books have nothing to do with the television show, and vice-versa. So, in the book Doctor Who universe, there is a black hole at the center of the galaxy, and The Doctor is attuned to the higher-frequencies of the multiverse. There, problem solved...

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

I understand trying to work out continuity within the show. That's fun. But, trying to match up alternate media to Doctor Who's timeline is like trying to match up where the original Battlestar Galactica took place in the Star Trek timeline: It makes no sense.

I'm not sure I understand your argument there. "Alternate" media? What does that mean? Surely, all Doctor Who stories take place in the same universe. There's nothing special about the tv series.

 

[The]

The television series is the only "real" Doctor Who. Its timeline and universe are the dominant form in the Doctor Who franchise. The novels may try to maintain the show's universe sometimes, but all in all it's the show that may add or subtract anything from the Doctor Who universe. Everything outside of Doctor Who, the show, doesn't really count unless you, the fan, want to fantasize about it. That's as it has been, that's as it always shall be, I would think. The wagon can't lead the horse...

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

Well, I don't agree with your attitude. And neither does the Doctor.

 

[The]

Ha! Perhaps. But, the BBC, RTD, Moffat, and pretty much every person who has ever been in control has stated it as fact. The Alternate Media (Big Finish, Novels, Comics, etc.) can be truly awesome, and in some ways, better than the show itself. But, the creators can't allow a connection between the Prime Universe of the show, and the contracted franchises that have been crafted by third-parties. It is at least fortunate for the fan that, most of the time, you can find where everything fits together (if you try, are prone to doing so, and have a good imagination). However, for things like this, a "Michael Moorcock"-celebrity novel, there's no way I would attempt to connect anything at all. He's not writing a Doctor Who novel, he's writing "Michael Moorcock writes a Doctor Who novel". It will always have concepts and intentions that lean away form the pre-established, if nothing else to give him literary latitude to work. And, also, because no editor is going to go to the celebrity writer and ask him to change his story while explaining Terminus to him...

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

Ha! Perhaps. But, the BBC, RTD, Moffat, and pretty much every person who has ever been in control has stated it as fact.

Really? I don't remember anyone ever saying that. Rather, they don't state anything at all one way or the other. Unlike say, Star Trek or Star Wars, there's no great authoritative voice proclaiming what is or isn't "canon" (if I might use that dirty word for a moment). They just let us get on with it. And that's terrific.

It is at least fortunate for the fan that, most of the time, you can find where everything fits together (if you try, are prone to doing so, and have a good imagination).

Most? Just checking: you have seen the link in my signature?

However, for things like this, a "Michael Moorcock"-celebrity novel, there's no way I would attempt to connect anything at all. He's not writing a Doctor Who novel, he's writing "Michael Moorcock writes a Doctor Who novel". It will always have concepts and intentions that lean away form the pre-established, if nothing else to give him literary latitude to work. And, also, because no editor is going to go to the celebrity writer and ask him to change his story while explaining Terminus to him...

See, it's this notion that there's something "pre-established" to lean away from. It's Doctor Who, it changes every week! I'm equally at home believing "Hubert's Folly" or "The Eye Spiders of Pergross" or "Doctor Who and the Pescatons" are real adventures that actually happened to the Doctor, so I doubt I'd have much problem with Mr Moorcock's book.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Interesting idea, except that the interaction between the Whoniverse and other realms of the Multiverse is presented in the book as not being all that unusual. The Doctor makes a comment at one point regarding a cosmic phenomenon related to the Multiverse, that it's been there for so long, life in the universe has become used to it. He certainly doesn't see anything all that odd about Frank/Freddie Force and his Antimatter Men being able to pop into his continuum from their antimatter realm. I don't think it's anything to do with the Crack.

And as I said (or at the very least implied), I glommed onto the Crack as a kind of post-facto thing, once I'd finished the book. In truth, I thought Terraphiles reinforced the Crack narrative throughout the fifth season; I could see how the fractures in time and space could lead to the adventure the Doctor and Amy have in Terraphiles. It's obviously not a Crack story -- it's doubtful Moorcock knew much of anything about the fifth season, as his first draft was turned in before "The Eleventh Hour" even aired -- and yet, it so very clearly is. That's the beauty of Doctor Who.

 

[The]

Ha! Perhaps. But, the BBC, RTD, Moffat, and pretty much every person who has ever been in control has stated it as fact.

Really? I don't remember anyone ever saying that. Rather, they don't state anything at all one way or the other. Unlike say, Star Trek or Star Wars, there's no great authoritative voice proclaiming what is or isn't "canon" (if I might use that dirty word for a moment). They just let us get on with it. And that's terrific.

The subject came up, I believe, when people were asking RTD about the continuity links to other media like Big Finish, and whether the "Time War/destruction of Gallifrey" in the novels was the Time War he was referencing. He stated that they were separate entities and had nothing to do with each other, and as far as the franchise goes, you can make it fit if you like, but the show is all they really draw from as far as "continuity" goes. Thus, if you want to count them "in", then you have to accept that Gallifrey was destroyed twice.

It is at least fortunate for the fan that, most of the time, you can find where everything fits together (if you try, are prone to doing so, and have a good imagination).

Most? Just checking: you have seen the link in my signature?

Heh. No, I haven't clicked it. I assume you have worked out a Multiverse Chronology?

However, for things like this, a "Michael Moorcock"-celebrity novel, there's no way I would attempt to connect anything at all. He's not writing a Doctor Who novel, he's writing "Michael Moorcock writes a Doctor Who novel". It will always have concepts and intentions that lean away form the pre-established, if nothing else to give him literary latitude to work. And, also, because no editor is going to go to the celebrity writer and ask him to change his story while explaining Terminus to him...

See, it's this notion that there's something "pre-established" to lean away from.

Well, there is....a television show that's been around for almost fifty-years.

It's Doctor Who, it changes every week! I'm equally at home believing "Hubert's Folly" or "The Eye Spiders of Pergross" or "Doctor Who and the Pescatons" are real adventures that actually happened to the Doctor, so I doubt I'd have much problem with Mr Moorcock's book.

Well, that's cool. But, I wasn't saying you wouldn't get into his book. I was just trying to help the OP with his "Crisis of Continuity".

 

[EJA]

I am of the opinion that if a spin-off book contradicts the canonical material, whether said material is established before or after the book is written, then the value of the story is downgraded somewhat.

Allyn, just out of interest, does Moorcock's story really fit into the modern Whoniverse for you?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It does, yes, EJA. I had no trouble making it fit, compared to, say, Prisoner of the Daleks where I had to figure out exactly how the TARDIS jumped a "time track" and landed in the pre-Time War universe. (I decided in that cast that Dalek-Caan weakened the Time Lock enough in rescuing Davros from the Time War that things could start moving back and forth between the two timelines.)

But then, I accept Scream of the Shalka and Death Comes to Time as legitimate pieces of the Whoniverse, and most people wouldn't; the former because it's been superseded by later productions, the latter because it doesn't really fit with anything that's come before or since. Unless it's explicitly intended not to fit (like, say, Big Finish's Unbound series), I think Doctor Who is flexible enough to accommodate everything. So I proceed on the assumption that it "fits," and then work backward to make the links if necessary.

I also think that, like Andrew Kearley above mentions, the term "canonical" simply doesn't apply to Doctor Who in the same way that it applies to Star Trek or Star Wars or other American media productions. The BBC doesn't seem to have any interest in defining a "canon," as Paul Cornell explains. Lance Parkin has a good essay on the subject of canon in Time Unincorporated; his conclusion is that the books and comics and audios are as canonical (in the American sense) as the television series.

 

[The]

I just want to say, the next person that links to Paul Cornell's tired, single-minded op-ed piece during a discussion on continuity in Doctor Who will find their home country, province, or state under siege by my alien forces. That's all I'm going say...