Terminator: Salvation Discuss/Grade <Spoilers>

[DarthPipes]

On Bryce Dallas Howard's role-

Early versions of the script had Marcus as the central character. With a much smaller role for John Conner. Setting him up for more screen time in the sequel as the leader of the Resistance. All of which changed when Christan Bale was cast in the role.

While John's scenes were increased Kate's limited presence seems to be a hold over from that earlier incarnation.

I had read something similar about Connor not being the main character in an earlier version of the story. But despite the screentime Bale got, the writers didn't do a good job making Connor the main character anyway. It still very much felt like Marcus's story, with a beginning (of sorts), a middle, and an ending. I think they should've stuck with the original idea of keeping Marcus the main character, and maybe just cast Worthington as Connor and Bale as Marcus if Bale to give him the appropriate amount of screentime befitting his star status.

Bale as Marcus would have been a NIGHTMARE. The only reason this film is as good as it is is due to Sam Worthington's performance as Marcus. Bale would have grunted through the entire role. The movie wouldn't have been nearly as effective and Bale would have continued his descent into living joke status with that stupid fucking grunt of his.

John Connor's role must have really been small in the original. Despite the screen time he's given, he takes a backseat to Marcus. Bale does well from a action and physical standpoint but his character doesn't exactly comes across as one that viewers will embrace.

 

[Evil Twin]

Y'know... I liked it. Better than I was expecting it to be. Obviously not as good as the first two, but I thought it was much better than the third one. Very loud explosion-fest, but not to the point of incomprehension. Loved all the T-800 endoskeleton action, especially when you compare it to the clunky stop-motion effects in the first film. Marcus was a likable character, and it was really his film more than John's. Liked seeing Moon Bloodgood again (damn Journeyman cancellation!) and being a Splinter Cell fan, hearing Michael Ironside always puts a grin on my face.

And now I have the sudden urge to go play Fallout 3. Wonder why that is...

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I agree with all the others who say that they should have gone with their original plan and centered the film entirely on Marcus Wright, making John Connor strictly a supporting character. Even though we all know what Judgment Day is, I think it would be much more compelling to see the story entirely from the perspective of someone who doesn't and is wondering what the hell is going on.

Christian Bale was awful in this movie. It's a shame, because it's the first time I've seen him be truly awful in anything (although I did feel like he was phoning it in a lot of the time in The Dark Knight).

Sam Worthington & Moon Bloodgood were excellent. (And now I really want to see that topless scene that they cut to make the PG-13 rating.)

Anton Yelchin was good as Kyle Reese, although no one can be as good as Michael Biehn.

Michael Ironside didn't chew scenery nearly enough. I was quite disappointed that he wasn't up to his usual standards. (He was one of the best things about Highlander II.)

The Schwarzenegger cameo was fun. The technique used for the head replacement was great. I wish we'd gotten a few more shots of his face. I hope they're able to do something similar to de-age Michael Biehn to put him in the sequels.

 

[Trekker4747]

Terminator Salvation

Rated PG-13 for intense sequences of sci-fi violence and action, and language.

My grade: B-


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The Terminator franchise is an interesting one. It started off as pretty much an average, mostly forgettable, 80s noir sci-fi/action flick. It moved on to one of the best action movies of all time in Terminator 2. A movie that embodies Summer Action Fun while still being a pretty darn smart movie with big ideas to sell.

Terminator 3 comes along, this time without James Cameron who started the franchise, and in it it loses something. It scores points for the "shocking ending" of the characters failing in their goal to prevent Judgement Day (when the machines attack humans with nuclear weapons) but the whole movie mostly plays like farce. Almost as a parody of Terminator movies and it stands out that the movie takes place during the day -the previous ones have the big action pieces at night.


Now we come to this one. Terminator: Salvation. A movie that doesn't seem to have as much to say as the first two did but hardly as little to say as the third one did. There's really some interesting good, solid, ideas in T:Salvation, ideas worth exploring and discussing. The problem is that many of ideas are buried under a lot of crap.

First and foremost this movie was edited in a blender. There's one scene in particular where you'll raise an eyebrow and wonder where a group of bad guys came from, when the weather changed, and really what the hell is going on. There's also other indications of entire plot threads being removed (one in particular seems cut out entirely from what I recall from spoilers) and just their residue is hanging out. Kate Brewster is here. Pregnant. And, yeah, that's about it.

Secondly, the camera work and "look" of this movie tries to have a "guerrilla" style to it similar to the Normandy Beach scene in Saving Private Ryan. It's a style that sometimes works and at other times makes the movie look like a cut scene from a PS3.

Thirdly, sigh. Christian Bale. I'm just not sure what to make of this guy. He can do some good performances, is a capable actor, but at times I wonder if he scrubs his throat with a wire brush before stepping in front of the camera. Broader than that the actors are given little to do in this movie besides growl at each other, and yell at machines and of course the movie has to deliver us the mute little girl who'll capture all of our hearts. Or something.

Fourthly, this is a movie about the fall of mankind. We've been reduced to savage animals living in bombed out gas stations and I really didn't care. The "extras" in this movie are leftovers from any number of post-Apocalypse movies and we're not shown any real humanity to them. There's a scene with John delivering an uplifting speech over CB radio and we're shown various stock human characters who, well we don't care about. They're just there. Kyle Reese's flashbacks in the first movie delivered a lot more emotion and punch in showing us the plight of this future humanity. This movie, we're not given a chance or motivation to care.

Fifthly, considering the state of the world, and the nature of gasoline it's amazing to me that nine years from now we'd still be able to operate fighter jets AND still be able to fuel the things.

Sixthly, open heart surgery in an open-air MASH tent? Can anyone say sepsis? ("... of the FUTURE"?)

The movie is good for a couple hours of entertainment as the action scenes and SFX work in it are pretty well done. Seeing the '84 version of Arnold's Terminator was nifty but the theme felt like it was played almost like a joke (sort of like the X-Files chords with the picture of GWB in last year's movie.)

This movie is a mixed bag. It's got some real ideas here but they're never really explored or developed and are buried under a mass of typical action movie crap. Really, if it wasn't for Bale or this being the Terminator franchise this movie would barely be worth being in theaters.

Oh, and Seventh-ly, women in the future, apparently, latch on to whomever flashes a smile at them.

Eightly, resistance fighters in a post-apocalyptic horror get *REALLY* good dental coverage!

 

[pookha]

when i first heard about the first ending i was appalled .
but now after seeing marcus i think it would have been better if they had turned him into connor after connor died.

 

[Crystalline Entity]

I just saw it and really enjoyed it, although it was definitely disjointed at first.

Here's a question: could they bring Marcus back if they wanted to? The T-800 seemed to damage his heart somehow, then Connor brought him back to life with electroshock therapy! Maybe his biological parts would not survive without a heart, but the rest of the cyborg should still be functional. Having a fully functional AI working for the Resistance would be very helpful.

I hope they do, because I think he was the best embodiment of what Sarah Connor said at the end of T2: if a machine can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too.

 

[Procutus]

Well, I'm one of the few who voted 'Excellent'. I really enjoyed it; in fact, of the three movies my wife and I have seen in the last three weeks, we liked this the best (and yes, that includes Star Trek).

Like most who has posted here, I agree the Marcus character was the real soul of this movie. Yelchin was great as Kyle, I liked him far better here than as Chekov with the over-the-top accent. I could really seen his Kyle Reese becoming Biehn's in the next ten years.

Darth Pipes is right, Bryce Dallas Howard looked great, but I was disappointed that her Kate Connor didn't have a larger role in this. Maybe next time. And Moon Bloodgood was incredibly hot.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

when i first heard about the first ending i was appalled .
but now after seeing marcus i think it would have been better if they had turned him into connor after connor died.

Hmmm. I think you may be right. It feels cheesy either way but at least it would be unexpected, kinda like the ending of Terminator 3.

But I will have to disagree with everyone saying that Terminator Salvation is better than Terminator 3. Sure, T3 was mostly just a crappy remake of T2 but I think it at least benefited from a strong cast. Although he played it for laughs a bit too often, Arnold Schwarzenegger is a first class movie star that can carry a movie on his charm alone. Nick Stahl seems to be putting in some genuine effort and pathos as John Connor (unlike Christian Bale). And I think Claire Danes is a much stronger Catherine Brewster than Bryce Dallas Howard.

 

[DarthPipes]

I thought Nich Stahl was dull and lifeless as John Connor, a complete pushover. Claire Danes did little more than scream throughout the film. I still think Furlong was the best of the John Connor's. At least he did grunt his way through an entire movie.

 

[nx1701g]

Here's a question: could they bring Marcus back if they wanted to? The T-800 seemed to damage his heart somehow, then Connor brought him back to life with electroshock therapy! Maybe his biological parts would not survive without a heart, but the rest of the cyborg should still be functional. Having a fully functional AI working for the Resistance would be very helpful.

It is possible for Marcus to come back. I read a few months ago that both Bale and Worthington had multiple films in their contracts. Bale is contracted for all three of the new trilogy.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Well, Nick Stahl's John Connor is the only one that really had a dynamic character arc. Edward Furlong's version was the most static character in T2, mostly because the T-800 & Sarah Connor were the ones undergoing transformations. Christian Bale's version doesn't do anything particularly interesting.

One thing that didn't make much sense to me was how, very early in the film, Skynet knew that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father and knew what he looked like. For that matter, why would John Connor be such a high priority target at this point in the timeline?

 

[nx1701g]

Well, Nick Stahl's John Connor is the only one that really had a dynamic character arc. Edward Furlong's version was the most static character in T2, mostly because the T-800 & Sarah Connor were the ones undergoing transformations. Christian Bale's version doesn't do anything particularly interesting.

One thing that didn't make much sense to me was how, very early in the film, Skynet knew that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father and knew what he looked like. For that matter, why would John Connor be such a high priority target at this point in the timeline?

The T-X uploaded the information into Skynet, or so behind the scenes comments go.

Spoiler: Here's something to really confuse you

When they were originally writing the movie the terminator that Marcus and John destroy WAS the Terminator from The Terminator.

 

[Leonardo T. Dragon]

Okay, I'm just going to say it now: T4 was awful.

My girlfriend and I went and saw it tonight and we ended up laughing about halfway through. The script was incredibly obvious with no real surprises of any kind. The editting was laughable-- with no single shot lasting longer than 45 seconds, and the action was just flat.

Honestly, I felt that this was a complete and utter dis-service to the franchise. I'll post more tomorrow if the discussion warrants it but this is the second-worst movie I've seen this season. (Crank 2 has the dubious honor of being the biggest stinker.)

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^Ironically, Crank: High Voltage is the only film so far this year that hasn't disappointed me. I thought it was great fun.

Well, Nick Stahl's John Connor is the only one that really had a dynamic character arc. Edward Furlong's version was the most static character in T2, mostly because the T-800 & Sarah Connor were the ones undergoing transformations. Christian Bale's version doesn't do anything particularly interesting.

One thing that didn't make much sense to me was how, very early in the film, Skynet knew that Kyle Reese was John Connor's father and knew what he looked like. For that matter, why would John Connor be such a high priority target at this point in the timeline?

The T-X uploaded the information into Skynet, or so behind the scenes comments go.

Even so, I thought that John Connor kept that half of his parentage very secret. And if Skynet knew, you'd think that they would realize that now their best chance for successfully eliminating John Connor would be to simply never build a time machine.

 

[Sephiroth]

I wonder why SKYney keeps the Cyberdyne Moniker & logo

 

[davejames]

Ok, that wasn't THAT bad. After all the horrible reviews, I was expecting another travesty on the level of Phantom Menace or Indy 4, but despite some problems I thought this was a pretty decent, well-executed action movie.

Yeah it definitely could have used some more heart and more engaging characters (Bale was dull beyond belief), and I admit the rentlessly grim tone wore me out at times, but there was still some pretty cool stuff here. The action sequences were all brilliantly done and the Terminators themselves were always fun to watch in action, if nothing else (in fact watching Christian Bale fight Arnold was worth the price of admission itself).

I can certainly understand fans being a little harder on it because of the Terminator name-- and I agree it doesn't come CLOSE to the level of the first two--but I think it's a stretch to call it an outright dud or turkey.

Actually, despite the radically different tone, I basically look at it the same as T3-- not a great Terminator movie, but a pretty solid action movie nonetheless.

 

[StarTrek1701]

I didn't go in with high expectations. My only hope was that it was better than Terminator 3 and Terminator Salvation managed that. The movie was highly entertaining but it didn't have much substance to it.

Substance smudgetance.

I keep reading this crap about Star Trek and now, T4.

I ask you...how much "substance" was in the original Terminator?

These are just fun summer movies.

And I got a newsflash for you -- VERY rarely has Hollywood ever produced anything that was as "substantial" as a book. Let's seeee...2001, 2010, Blade Runner...arguably, Silent Running...these are science fiction films with "substance". But as you can see, these are RARE.

Going into a summer movie expecting some kind of intellectual epiphany is just absurd.

If you want substance stay at home and turn on FoxNews (it's free too!), go watch The English Patient or pick up a good, classic novel and read it.

Personally, I would rather drop the pretentious pursuit of "substance" and just go enjoy some escapist entertainment for two hours.

GIMME A T!
GIMME A H!
GIMME A I!
GIMME A S!

TTTTHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIISSS!!!!!

Why do people even bother going to the movies if they plan on having no fun??

 

[Trekker4747]

Going into a summer movie expecting some kind of intellectual epiphany is just absurd.

Going into a Summer movie expecting it to only be two hours of mindless, dumb, action is just as absurd.

Terminator 2? Released in July 1991. It has infinite more heart, depth and soul than this one.

The Dark Knight: Some nice, deep, dark themes in that movie and a bit of a message to boot. Hailed as one of the best movies last year if not THE best. Won an Oscar for acting. Released: July 2008.

The Wrath of Khan: Hailed as one of the, if not THE, best Star Trek movie. Has emmense emotional impact in it and deep themes. Released: June 1982.

I could go on, really, but I think I made my point.

It's possible to have your popcorn and think too.

 

[Cky]

I thought it was okay, but Im going to say what I said in a thread before.

This film takes itself too seriously! I mean, Bale is always walking around with his grumpy face on, and McG has just forgotten about the heart of Terminator.

Well DUH! It's a post-apocalyptic world where machines are trying to kill you almost every waking minute! Either that, or I would think radiation sickness/exposure would also be a problem.

Aside from the pretentious "no substance" comments, this is another ridiculous criticism of this movie.

Personally, I don't want to see the Terminator films become Gil Gerard's Buck Rogers in the 25th Century!

What, would you like for John Connor to have a cute robot sidekick and comedy relief?

That would be HORRIBLE!!!

It's a serious situation and I would think these characters WOULD be taking it seriously.

PS: There was no time travel in this movie, BECAUSE IT HADN'T BEEN INVENTED YET!!! Good grief, give them a chance to develop these stories!

Oh, you mean as aposed to a futuristic robot going though time to kill someone?

What I ment was, T2 had a lot of heart behind it, with John teaching the Terminator why humans cry, and the whole thumbs up at the end. That to me is what made Terminator 2 so good, and this film had none of it. Just Bale running around looking as though he's constantly constipated, putting on his grumpy voice.

 

[T'Baio]

How the fuck did an H-K with jet propulsion and a Harvester robot the size of a small building sneak up on them at the convenience store!?! Especially when as soon as they're on screen, the theater is rumbling with the amount of noise they make?