Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Everyone, say "Thank you, David..."
Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Books
- Thread starter elric428
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Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Great, the evil smiley. Either I'm on track with the Warsaw Pact comparison, or I'm sooooo far off you're mocking me. Eh, either way, it'll be fun to see what happens.
Also, in regards to the David R. George MyrU story, I recognize that it's billed as a TNG tale, but, until it comes out, I'm gonna be hoping against hope that it's set in the alternate universe he's already so lovingly detailed in Provenance of Shadows. I'd absolutely love to see how that particular timeline progressed into the 24th century.
Great, the evil smiley. Either I'm on track with the Warsaw Pact comparison, or I'm sooooo far off you're mocking me. Eh, either way, it'll be fun to see what happens.
Also, in regards to the David R. George MyrU story, I recognize that it's billed as a TNG tale, but, until it comes out, I'm gonna be hoping against hope that it's set in the alternate universe he's already so lovingly detailed in Provenance of Shadows. I'd absolutely love to see how that particular timeline progressed into the 24th century.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
"I am Become Mack, Destroyer of Worlds...."
"I am Become Mack, Destroyer of Worlds...."
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
I don't see how it could have progressed to the 24th Century. Its 2266 saw people from an another timeline go back to its past and change it. It should have terminated at 2267.
Great, the evil smiley. Either I'm on track with the Warsaw Pact comparison, or I'm sooooo far off you're mocking me. Eh, either way, it'll be fun to see what happens.
Also, in regards to the David R. George MyrU story, I recognize that it's billed as a TNG tale, but, until it comes out, I'm gonna be hoping against hope that it's set in the alternate universe he's already so lovingly detailed in Provenance of Shadows. I'd absolutely love to see how that particular timeline progressed into the 24th century.
I don't see how it could have progressed to the 24th Century. Its 2266 saw people from an another timeline go back to its past and change it. It should have terminated at 2267.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
But if I'm not mistaken the reprints are also edited by Keith, a freelance editor, so the workload of Pocket's internal editorial staff shouldn't be too much influenced by those one way or the other. If on the other that means that they have Keith editing more stuff on a freelance basis that would be kind of good news since he is and was for a few years the best editor of Star Trek fiction IMHO.
But if I'm not mistaken the reprints are also edited by Keith, a freelance editor, so the workload of Pocket's internal editorial staff shouldn't be too much influenced by those one way or the other. If on the other that means that they have Keith editing more stuff on a freelance basis that would be kind of good news since he is and was for a few years the best editor of Star Trek fiction IMHO.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
You're forgetting that even if a freelancer edits the eBook anthologies, they still have to pay him/her. If they cut Marco because they're trying to cut costs, I can easily see them deciding that they can't afford to hire a freelancer and need to keep costs in-house for now.
You're forgetting that even if a freelancer edits the eBook anthologies, they still have to pay him/her. If they cut Marco because they're trying to cut costs, I can easily see them deciding that they can't afford to hire a freelancer and need to keep costs in-house for now.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Not necessarily. By that logic, The Chimes at Midnight shouldn't have happened because Spock restored his own timeline in "Yesteryear." But alternate timelines can continue to coexist alongside "restored" ones; indeed, physically speaking, there should be no mechanism for "erasing" them.
Well, to be precise, NF only referred to DS5. It was First Contact which established separately that DS5 lay in the Typhon Sector. The name "Typhon" is also found in the Typhon Expanse from "Cause and Effect," which may or may not be in the Typhon Sector, though Star Charts says it is. (Typhon is a monster from Greek mythology, so there could be multiple things named after him. Indeed, asteroid 42355 is named Typhon.) Since the Typhon Expanse that was a major plot point in "Cause and Effect" is better known than the Typhon Sector from a passing reference in FC, I would assume the name is more likely based on the former.
Besides, the Warsaw Pact wasn't centered in Warsaw; that was simply the city where the treaty that founded it was signed, and it was way, way over at the western extreme of the Pact's territory (although somewhat closer to the heart of it in terms of population distribution). So there's no reason to expect the Typhon Pact to be geographically centered on the Typhon Expanse and/or Sector.
Besides, the Warsaw Pact wasn't centered in Warsaw; that was simply the city where the treaty that founded it was signed, and it was way, way over at the western extreme of the Pact's territory (although somewhat closer to the heart of it in terms of population distribution). So there's no reason to expect the Typhon Pact to be geographically centered on the Typhon Expanse and/or Sector.
Not necessarily. By that logic, The Chimes at Midnight shouldn't have happened because Spock restored his own timeline in "Yesteryear." But alternate timelines can continue to coexist alongside "restored" ones; indeed, physically speaking, there should be no mechanism for "erasing" them.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Even if they would decide to keep all Star Trek related editing in-house the costs of producing (and the amount of time working on it for the editor(s)) the reprints should be lower, than if they had to work on a book from the ground up since Keith already has done most of the editorial work when it comes to the content.
Actually it would make more sense to me if they had increased the numbers of reprints of previously published stuff like CoE and Slings and Arrows to cut costs and give Margaret enough time to work on new stuff.
Even if they would decide to keep all Star Trek related editing in-house the costs of producing (and the amount of time working on it for the editor(s)) the reprints should be lower, than if they had to work on a book from the ground up since Keith already has done most of the editorial work when it comes to the content.
Actually it would make more sense to me if they had increased the numbers of reprints of previously published stuff like CoE and Slings and Arrows to cut costs and give Margaret enough time to work on new stuff.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Mind you, I'm unhappy about the book being bumped, too, but what I'm actually unhappy with is that Marco's been fired, which led to the circumstance. *sigh*
There's still a lot of mindless paperwork that can only be done by the in-house person. My task on the reprints is to assemble the material and start it through the production process and proofread the thing once it's typeset. There's a shitload of other stuff (including creation of the cover) that I don't do (though I'm consulted on some of it). That's exactly the kind of scut work that Margaret needs less of right now, not more.
Mind you, I'm unhappy about the book being bumped, too, but what I'm actually unhappy with is that Marco's been fired, which led to the circumstance. *sigh*
Aw, thanks! *fierce editorial blush*
I want to see people at Shore Leave wearing this phrase on t-shirts!
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Hm. I had assumed that The Chimes at Midnight was not an alternate timeline or branch off of the regular timeline, but, rather, simply an alternate quantum reality with no more relationship to "ours" than, say, the Mirror Universe.
I wasn't trying to suggest any particular parallel between the Warsaw Pact and the Typhon Pact -- the name just made me of think of it.
Hm. I had assumed that The Chimes at Midnight was not an alternate timeline or branch off of the regular timeline, but, rather, simply an alternate quantum reality with no more relationship to "ours" than, say, the Mirror Universe.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
"Alternate quantum reality" and "alternate timeline" are the same thing. The whole idea of parallel timelines is based on the Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, stating that the universe can (and does) branch off into parallel histories. But all those histories share a common origin if you go back far enough.
"Alternate quantum reality" and "alternate timeline" are the same thing. The whole idea of parallel timelines is based on the Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics, stating that the universe can (and does) branch off into parallel histories. But all those histories share a common origin if you go back far enough.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
If that's the case, then there was no actual need for Kirk and Spock to go back to "repair" McCoy's damage, was there? Because their timeline should have continued to exist?
To make an analogy:
I had assumed that the timeline in "City"/Provenance was akin to a stream that branches off from a river and then rejoins it at a later point (branching off in the 1930s and rejoining in 2267), whilst the Chimes timeline was a separate river that branches off from another one and never rejoins it.
If that's the case, then there was no actual need for Kirk and Spock to go back to "repair" McCoy's damage, was there? Because their timeline should have continued to exist?
To make an analogy:
I had assumed that the timeline in "City"/Provenance was akin to a stream that branches off from a river and then rejoins it at a later point (branching off in the 1930s and rejoining in 2267), whilst the Chimes timeline was a separate river that branches off from another one and never rejoins it.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Is it just me or do they have a huge picture for the Soul Key up? Wow... I don't like this one as much as the "not final cover art" one from the catalog, but in all fairness, it makes a bit more sense I think. And its nice and swirly... Then again, we need another purple DS9 cover, we haven't had one since Gateways! Purple is awesome.
Is it just me or do they have a huge picture for the Soul Key up? Wow... I don't like this one as much as the "not final cover art" one from the catalog, but in all fairness, it makes a bit more sense I think. And its nice and swirly... Then again, we need another purple DS9 cover, we haven't had one since Gateways! Purple is awesome.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Technically, you're probably right, in that McCoy jumping back through time and altering something shouldn't have changed anything in the timeline he started from. What's happened has happened, and altering the past in timeline A should only cause a split that results in timeline B, with both continuing on from that point. However, Trek has pretty much never presented time travel as such, always presenting timeline disruptions as having to be fixed somehow (of course, such fixing would probably result in a timeline C, but that's a different conversation).
Either way, considering that the MyrU stories are set up as "What If?" stories with very few hard and fast rules, there's no reason George couldn't do the story if he wished. Probably wouldn't, and I doubt it'll come to pass, but it'd be an interesting story regardless.
Technically, you're probably right, in that McCoy jumping back through time and altering something shouldn't have changed anything in the timeline he started from. What's happened has happened, and altering the past in timeline A should only cause a split that results in timeline B, with both continuing on from that point. However, Trek has pretty much never presented time travel as such, always presenting timeline disruptions as having to be fixed somehow (of course, such fixing would probably result in a timeline C, but that's a different conversation).
Either way, considering that the MyrU stories are set up as "What If?" stories with very few hard and fast rules, there's no reason George couldn't do the story if he wished. Probably wouldn't, and I doubt it'll come to pass, but it'd be an interesting story regardless.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Oh, no. The timeline that we see in Provenance never rejoins the "correct" timeline. Kirk and the landing party somehow end up in the 2267 of that timeline, in which humans presumably never develop interstellar travel. The timeline we see in COTEOF, from the point Kirk and Spock arrive back in time, is a third deviation, which more or less rejoins the "correct" timeline at the point when Edith kisses the road and our heroes pop back through the magic donut.
This is correct. This would be a river that branched off one way, while in another, adult Spock went back through the Guardian to save his younger self.
It would probably help, in this instance, to regard what Kirk and Spock did not so much as repairing McCoy's "damage," but to get back to their proper timeline after being displaced by McCoy and/or the Guardian.
Oh, no. The timeline that we see in Provenance never rejoins the "correct" timeline. Kirk and the landing party somehow end up in the 2267 of that timeline, in which humans presumably never develop interstellar travel. The timeline we see in COTEOF, from the point Kirk and Spock arrive back in time, is a third deviation, which more or less rejoins the "correct" timeline at the point when Edith kisses the road and our heroes pop back through the magic donut.
This is correct. This would be a river that branched off one way, while in another, adult Spock went back through the Guardian to save his younger self.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Strictly speaking, that's the way it should work. Trek has always been inconsistent about this. There's evidence that can be cited to promote both interpretations, as Roberto Orci acknowledged in his recent TrekMovie interview about the new movie's time-travel rules. But The Chimes of Midnight does set a precedent for the continued existence of a timeline that was "corrected" back to the original onscreen. Perhaps both timelines coexist and it's simply a matter of the characters making sure they return to the right one (as Bill said).
But if that were true of the Thelin timeline from Chimes, then why would Spock have needed to go back in time and save himself? Storywise, both timelines are treated the same way: altered realities that the characters have to go back through the Guardian to restore. So if the Thelin timeline can continue after that restoration, why couldn't the Edith-Lives timeline do the same?
Personally, my view of "overwriting" timelines in cases like "City" and First Contact is similar to yours -- that one timeline isn't really "replaced" by another, but they coexist from the moment of divergence up to the moment of the original time travel, and then they undergo quantum collapse back into a single timeline that reflects the alterations made by the time travellers. But at the same time, we know from "Parallels," the Mirror Universe, and Myriad Universes that there are plenty of parallel timelines that don't go away -- usually because there was no time travel involved in their creation. But Chimes -- and the new movie -- require there to be cases where an original timeline and a temporally altered timeline coexist indefinitely. Those may be exceptions to the rule, but their existence is now an established reality.
And in response to MHJH, I don't think of the MyrU novels as "What If?" stories in the sense of "imaginary" tales of what might have been. As far as I'm concerned, they're events that "really" happened in parallel timelines. In fact, there are plot points in Places of Exile that depend on that assumption.
Strictly speaking, that's the way it should work. Trek has always been inconsistent about this. There's evidence that can be cited to promote both interpretations, as Roberto Orci acknowledged in his recent TrekMovie interview about the new movie's time-travel rules. But The Chimes of Midnight does set a precedent for the continued existence of a timeline that was "corrected" back to the original onscreen. Perhaps both timelines coexist and it's simply a matter of the characters making sure they return to the right one (as Bill said).
But if that were true of the Thelin timeline from Chimes, then why would Spock have needed to go back in time and save himself? Storywise, both timelines are treated the same way: altered realities that the characters have to go back through the Guardian to restore. So if the Thelin timeline can continue after that restoration, why couldn't the Edith-Lives timeline do the same?
Personally, my view of "overwriting" timelines in cases like "City" and First Contact is similar to yours -- that one timeline isn't really "replaced" by another, but they coexist from the moment of divergence up to the moment of the original time travel, and then they undergo quantum collapse back into a single timeline that reflects the alterations made by the time travellers. But at the same time, we know from "Parallels," the Mirror Universe, and Myriad Universes that there are plenty of parallel timelines that don't go away -- usually because there was no time travel involved in their creation. But Chimes -- and the new movie -- require there to be cases where an original timeline and a temporally altered timeline coexist indefinitely. Those may be exceptions to the rule, but their existence is now an established reality.
And in response to MHJH, I don't think of the MyrU novels as "What If?" stories in the sense of "imaginary" tales of what might have been. As far as I'm concerned, they're events that "really" happened in parallel timelines. In fact, there are plot points in Places of Exile that depend on that assumption.
Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
See, I had presumed that the timeline seen in Chimes was not the altered timeline created in "Yesteryear," but, rather, a separate timeline that had a similar origin point.
In the same way, presumably there could be another timeline like the one detailed in Provenance that has a nearly identical origin point.
See, I had presumed that the timeline seen in Chimes was not the altered timeline created in "Yesteryear," but, rather, a separate timeline that had a similar origin point.
In the same way, presumably there could be another timeline like the one detailed in Provenance that has a nearly identical origin point.
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Re: Tentative Covers & Descriptions for Upcoming Summer 2009 Trek Book
Sorry, I should've been clearer. I didn't mean "What If?" in a general term, but in specific reference to the old Marvel comics, which were exactly what you describe: Tales of different realities, just as real as the one we normally follow, but altered in specific ways, generally because of one or more actions or decisions that were made differently from the "normal" timeline.
Sorry, I should've been clearer. I didn't mean "What If?" in a general term, but in specific reference to the old Marvel comics, which were exactly what you describe: Tales of different realities, just as real as the one we normally follow, but altered in specific ways, generally because of one or more actions or decisions that were made differently from the "normal" timeline.