I thought the Rymarians were nocturnal?
Telling Time in the Star Trek Universe
- Thread starter Brannigan
- Start date
I thought the Rymarians were nocturnal?
If I'm in the middle of the woods somewhere, I can't make a call to anywhere on my cellphone because it relies on proximity to a network of communication equipment exterior to my device. Communicators in Trek (or real-world tactical communications devices, for that matter) don't have that limitation, and that's obviously a pretty huge difference.
As far as "more capable" goes, real militaries use radio devices that are made for communication, and communication only. Imagine if this thing was shrunk down to a palm-size device that could also talk to a spaceship tens of thousands of miles up in orbit (without needing its signal to be bounced around a network of antennas and satellites). That would be way beyond the capability of some smartphone I can pick up at the Verizon kiosk at the local mall.
If I was on a mission on some desolate and primitive planet, surrounded by hostile aliens, I would rather have a robust, single-purpose, dedicated and reliable communications device instead of having to wait until I had two signal bars showing, or having to wait for Words with Friends or Facebook or MSQRD (or whatever other app is popular this week) to un-freeze just so I can make a basic voice call to my ship.
Kor
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If I'm in the middle of the woods somewhere, I can't make a call to anywhere on my cellphone because it relies on proximity to a network of communication equipment exterior to my device. Communicators in Trek (or real-world tactical communications devices, for that matter) don't have that limitation, and that's obviously a pretty huge difference.
As far as "more capable" goes, real militaries use radio devices that are made for communication, and communication only. Imagine if this thing was shrunk down to a palm-size device that could also talk to a spaceship tens of thousands of miles up in orbit (without needing its signal to be bounced around a network of antennas and satellites). That would be way beyond the capability of some smartphone I can pick up at the Verizon kiosk at the local mall.
If I was on a mission on some desolate and primitive planet, surrounded by hostile aliens, I would rather have a robust, single-purpose, dedicated and reliable communications device instead of having to wait until I had two signal bars showing, or having to wait for Words with Friends or Facebook or MSQRD (or whatever other app is popular this week) to un-freeze just so I can make a basic voice call to my ship.
Kor
What a terrible argument. Sure, the communicator is a great communication device. And as a communication device the fictional one works better than the real one. But the real one has far more diverse functionality, whatever you may think of that functionality is irrelevant. But your argument boils down to "but the fictional one isn't limited by physics and load times." Gee. I wonder why that might be. Probably something to do with the word "fictional" in that sentence.
Thanks for completely ignoring the comparison to real-world military communications technology, which is way more relevant to the discussion than consumer-level gadgets and their so-called functionality.
Kor
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I always likened the communicator to be like a very compact sat-phone. It's been shown to have a limited range by dialog from Spock about the ship needing to be in range for them to contact them. Probably due to the ship's orbit making them out of sight.
There's probably time readouts on all the consoles and tricorders.
Most TV shows don't really have visible clocks around. Characters might have watches but actually trying to show time in scenes where time is not relevant to the story seems like a continuity hassle that's just not worth it except in the case like 24 where the exact time is a continuing plot point.
Most TV shows don't really have visible clocks around. Characters might have watches but actually trying to show time in scenes where time is not relevant to the story seems like a continuity hassle that's just not worth it except in the case like 24 where the exact time is a continuing plot point.
Case in point, TUC, the time displayed on the clock above the view screen is never consistent.
^ Maybe that's the reason: We never see clocks because it would make it more awkward for filming. You'd have to worry about keeping the clocks in sync with every scene. And it'd make stock footage much harder, if not impossible, to use.
Nope.
You do realize that it was the Star Trek communicator that literally inspired the invention of the mobile phone, don't you?
And thank Star Trek for the tablet computer too.
Not to mention the NASA personnel and astronauts Trek inspired to enter a world of scitech, that innovated lots of cool tech wonders that trickled down into your everyday world of meh.
Geek, grok thyself.
Also, why compete with science fiction of the past? It misses the point of SF, which is not to predict, but to reflect contemporary ideas through extrapolation. It's not a contest.
But also, a communicator is not a phone. Apples and oranges. (I've never heard of a communicator battery dying or warranty expiring, either. Nor downloading malware, busting a screen, or requiring 3rd party apps, nor needing massive construction projects and space programs to make a "simple call").
(And - maybe you're overlooking the Tricorder for some of those missing pet phone functions).
Kor was not naysaying, he was correcting a glaring oversight in your position. No one's invalidating the smart phone here.
On a starship that would be called the head.
Now that' the kind of inventiveness that makes life here worthwhile!!!!
Have you seen the President's Analyst lately? It sounds like you're describing a spiffed up version of the Cerebrum Communicator.Good job!!!!
On another poin,t we prominently see what's supposed to be a pretty ubiquitous time piece in Time & Again, that's even used in Kalto Province. Rotations, intervals, fractions. Pretty nice looking too.
Probably a nod to Spock's Brain, where Kirk was looking at that approximate location when determining how much time was left to find the missing organ. The clock was there all the time, we just never saw it until TUC.
Hello everyone,
This is an interesting question! I suppose the dull answer is that, like trouser pockets and cigarettes, watches were seen as “not futuristic enough.” Certainly, even if they’d spent a fortune on really flashy “futuristic” watches, people would still have spotted them as “contemporary” in the 1960s. Certainly, the “ship’s chronometer” on the bridge doesn’t look terribly futuristic 50 years later, to the extent that the re-mastered version replaces it altogether.
Going for something more “in universe,” I’ve always assumed that when people wanted to know the time they ask the computer (when they’re on the ship). We just don’t see it because it’s not dramatic. As for watches, they could be built into the uniforms (although we never see anyone peering at their sleeves, or numbers there, so I don’t think so). Also, there’s no specific reason why people shouldn’t have something that feeds information to them on demand. It might not be a chip in their heads, but it could be an almost invisible earpiece. Again, we never see anything like that, so I don’t think it works well for “Star Trek.”
Although it seems to be an area of dispute so far, I think that the most sensible answer is that landing parties do have timekeeping devices, and the communicators are the obvious candidates for that. I don’t see them having a little digital clock, since it’s never visible on the “cigarette pack” devices, or the later wearable ones (with the possible exception of the TMP wrist-communicators that could have anything going on in that opaque bit that might be a screen). None of the “Star Trek” communicators have terribly elaborate control panels, and most of the adjustments seem to be either automatic or controlled by voice commands.
So, my suggestion is that people in “Star Trek” don’t normally look at a display to see the time, they ask and get told. That also goes for “meet back here in ten minutes”; people tell their communicators to remind them at the appropriate time, either by bleeping, or maybe they have a vibrate setting? (Once again, it seems obvious now, but we never really see anything like that.)
Like Green Shirt, I’ve also noticed that people on the bridge just tend to look upwards at nothing in particular at times. It’s really noticeable when someone’s talking over a viewscreen intercom to somewhere else on the ship. Sulu just seems to gaze over to one side, and can see whoever he’s talking to, just like they can see him. Even though Uhura seems to have a screen on her console (“And the Children Shall Lead”, if you need reminding), she just looks over to one side too, away from her console (it’s in the background, usually). My guess is that the screens running around the top of the bridge are a lot more versatile than they seem, acting as intercom viewscreens as needed. Certainly, if the screens over the two “half-stations” next to the main viewscreen usually display the time, we’d be none the wiser. Of course, once you get later on Captain Picard and his crew tend to address the computer like it lives in the ceiling anyway.
I’m kind of reluctant to say much about stardates, since There Are No Answers. Despite Captain Kirk’s comments in “The Savage Curtain” I think there’s a lot of evidence that the stardates are just used to “timestamp” official documents, log entries and duty rosters. They don’t replace the “normal” calendar, they run alongside it. That’s why people always seem to know what day of the week it is.
Since all of this is just my own guesses because we never really saw any clear answers, your opinions on this may be quite different, just as valid, and very possibly better.
Best wishes,
Timon
This is an interesting question! I suppose the dull answer is that, like trouser pockets and cigarettes, watches were seen as “not futuristic enough.” Certainly, even if they’d spent a fortune on really flashy “futuristic” watches, people would still have spotted them as “contemporary” in the 1960s. Certainly, the “ship’s chronometer” on the bridge doesn’t look terribly futuristic 50 years later, to the extent that the re-mastered version replaces it altogether.
Going for something more “in universe,” I’ve always assumed that when people wanted to know the time they ask the computer (when they’re on the ship). We just don’t see it because it’s not dramatic. As for watches, they could be built into the uniforms (although we never see anyone peering at their sleeves, or numbers there, so I don’t think so). Also, there’s no specific reason why people shouldn’t have something that feeds information to them on demand. It might not be a chip in their heads, but it could be an almost invisible earpiece. Again, we never see anything like that, so I don’t think it works well for “Star Trek.”
Although it seems to be an area of dispute so far, I think that the most sensible answer is that landing parties do have timekeeping devices, and the communicators are the obvious candidates for that. I don’t see them having a little digital clock, since it’s never visible on the “cigarette pack” devices, or the later wearable ones (with the possible exception of the TMP wrist-communicators that could have anything going on in that opaque bit that might be a screen). None of the “Star Trek” communicators have terribly elaborate control panels, and most of the adjustments seem to be either automatic or controlled by voice commands.
So, my suggestion is that people in “Star Trek” don’t normally look at a display to see the time, they ask and get told. That also goes for “meet back here in ten minutes”; people tell their communicators to remind them at the appropriate time, either by bleeping, or maybe they have a vibrate setting? (Once again, it seems obvious now, but we never really see anything like that.)
Like Green Shirt, I’ve also noticed that people on the bridge just tend to look upwards at nothing in particular at times. It’s really noticeable when someone’s talking over a viewscreen intercom to somewhere else on the ship. Sulu just seems to gaze over to one side, and can see whoever he’s talking to, just like they can see him. Even though Uhura seems to have a screen on her console (“And the Children Shall Lead”, if you need reminding), she just looks over to one side too, away from her console (it’s in the background, usually). My guess is that the screens running around the top of the bridge are a lot more versatile than they seem, acting as intercom viewscreens as needed. Certainly, if the screens over the two “half-stations” next to the main viewscreen usually display the time, we’d be none the wiser. Of course, once you get later on Captain Picard and his crew tend to address the computer like it lives in the ceiling anyway.
I’m kind of reluctant to say much about stardates, since There Are No Answers. Despite Captain Kirk’s comments in “The Savage Curtain” I think there’s a lot of evidence that the stardates are just used to “timestamp” official documents, log entries and duty rosters. They don’t replace the “normal” calendar, they run alongside it. That’s why people always seem to know what day of the week it is.
Since all of this is just my own guesses because we never really saw any clear answers, your opinions on this may be quite different, just as valid, and very possibly better.
Best wishes,
Timon
this is how I always rationalized the absence of dedicated chronometers, any gadget would obviously know the time and be able to tell it
User cultures would evolve apace with the hardware, too. Wristwatches were still all the rage a decade or two ago. Then came mobile phones, and many found the wristwatch completely redundant - but OTOH the chore of digging the cell phone out of the pocket was so formidable that people simply checked the time much less frequently. In parallel, it became much less important to know the time: there no longer was any fear of missing a rendezvous, as you could always phone the other guy that you were late!
Is there any onscreen evidence against the use of implanted watches? Such as the heroes being unable to tell the time, and stating as much?
Timo Saloniemi
Is there any onscreen evidence against the use of implanted watches? Such as the heroes being unable to tell the time, and stating as much?
Timo Saloniemi
Hello everyone,
I’m not at all as sure as I was that Timo’s going up a blind alley in suggesting the possibility of an implanted chronometer.
Kolrad is absolutely right in his quote from “Timescape”, but what if Riker is referring to an innate and continuous “time sense” (which seems to be what Data’s “internal chronometer” is) and not a device that tells him the time when he specifically requests it (like a watch, only built in).
I’d kind of ruled the idea out because of the big deal made about impants in the novel of “Star Trek: The Motion Picture”. Now it’s the weekend and I can check the exact wording, the book says that all command-rank Starfleet officers have “senceiver” implants (Kirk has had his since his first command), although they’re a secret. The big deal with them is not implants in general, but ones used to control behaviour. Of course, what it says in a book, even one by Gene Roddenberry, isn’t necessarily so.
What started to change my mind was the fact that there’s no social stigma attached to Geordi La Forge’s VISOR, even though it’s wired straight into his brain. “For the World is Hollow...” makes it quite clear that putting in (and removing) neural implants isn’t a big deal as a medical procedure.
Even though this is “magic future technology,” I’d guess that anything that has too much power in it wouldn’t be terribly safe, and anything that’s powered by the “wearer” could only be a low-energy device. As such, it’s unlikely to be a built-in ’phone and entertainment centre, but could provide some useful services, even if it’s just knowing the time without having to wear a watch or having an augmented interface with the ship’s computer.
I’d guess that these things are too small and low-energy to be picked up even by the enormously sensitive “Star Trek” sensors, if only because Kirk and Spock need to have “subcutaneous transponders” put in their arms in “Patterns of Force”. (Which would have been really handy on all sorts of occasions, but were only used that once.)
I’m quite happy to have my pets microchipped, and people in the future might have got more used to the idea of devices that feed information directly into their brains. “Little Green Men” makes it quite clear that the Ferengi on Deep Space Nine don’t speak English and use Universal Translators to talk to everyone in their own languages. The translators don’t work in the past (no computer interface, or no implants in the Earth hew-mons? They can still talk to Odo), and they’re either tremendously small devices in everyone’s ears, or possibly an implanted device just behind the ear (at least for Ferengi). It does seem that everyone must have them though, at least by the 24th century. So do these things tell you the time, and if they can’t, why not?
Of course, none of this was ever worked out in detail, and there is always going to be conflicting information. In “Schisms” Commander Riker has a digital clock on the wall of his quarters (showing the normal hours and minutes time and the stardate), and Data later asks the ship’s computer to tell him what time it is (he’s checking his internal chronometer). My take on the available evidence is that everyone has a device in their head/ear that could tell them the time, but they don’t always use it. I don’t think it is anything like enough for me to assume that this is the only possibility, though.
Lastly, I would like to confess that I skimmed through the big fight about what communicators can and can’t do, and missed that Victorious Timelord made exactly the point I did, only much sooner. So, a bit belatedly, I agree with what they said.
Best wishes,
Timon
I’m not at all as sure as I was that Timo’s going up a blind alley in suggesting the possibility of an implanted chronometer.
Kolrad is absolutely right in his quote from “Timescape”, but what if Riker is referring to an innate and continuous “time sense” (which seems to be what Data’s “internal chronometer” is) and not a device that tells him the time when he specifically requests it (like a watch, only built in).
I’d kind of ruled the idea out because of the big deal made about impants in the novel of “Star Trek: The Motion Picture”. Now it’s the weekend and I can check the exact wording, the book says that all command-rank Starfleet officers have “senceiver” implants (Kirk has had his since his first command), although they’re a secret. The big deal with them is not implants in general, but ones used to control behaviour. Of course, what it says in a book, even one by Gene Roddenberry, isn’t necessarily so.
What started to change my mind was the fact that there’s no social stigma attached to Geordi La Forge’s VISOR, even though it’s wired straight into his brain. “For the World is Hollow...” makes it quite clear that putting in (and removing) neural implants isn’t a big deal as a medical procedure.
Even though this is “magic future technology,” I’d guess that anything that has too much power in it wouldn’t be terribly safe, and anything that’s powered by the “wearer” could only be a low-energy device. As such, it’s unlikely to be a built-in ’phone and entertainment centre, but could provide some useful services, even if it’s just knowing the time without having to wear a watch or having an augmented interface with the ship’s computer.
I’d guess that these things are too small and low-energy to be picked up even by the enormously sensitive “Star Trek” sensors, if only because Kirk and Spock need to have “subcutaneous transponders” put in their arms in “Patterns of Force”. (Which would have been really handy on all sorts of occasions, but were only used that once.)
I’m quite happy to have my pets microchipped, and people in the future might have got more used to the idea of devices that feed information directly into their brains. “Little Green Men” makes it quite clear that the Ferengi on Deep Space Nine don’t speak English and use Universal Translators to talk to everyone in their own languages. The translators don’t work in the past (no computer interface, or no implants in the Earth hew-mons? They can still talk to Odo), and they’re either tremendously small devices in everyone’s ears, or possibly an implanted device just behind the ear (at least for Ferengi). It does seem that everyone must have them though, at least by the 24th century. So do these things tell you the time, and if they can’t, why not?
Of course, none of this was ever worked out in detail, and there is always going to be conflicting information. In “Schisms” Commander Riker has a digital clock on the wall of his quarters (showing the normal hours and minutes time and the stardate), and Data later asks the ship’s computer to tell him what time it is (he’s checking his internal chronometer). My take on the available evidence is that everyone has a device in their head/ear that could tell them the time, but they don’t always use it. I don’t think it is anything like enough for me to assume that this is the only possibility, though.
Lastly, I would like to confess that I skimmed through the big fight about what communicators can and can’t do, and missed that Victorious Timelord made exactly the point I did, only much sooner. So, a bit belatedly, I agree with what they said.
Best wishes,
Timon
Yes they do use them. Maybe not the cell phone generation?
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