TDK, nits, what didn't you like about it?

[Lapis Exilis]

Actually, the scene where he is REALLY fully-lit..the interrogation scene, is actually effective as hell. I knew it was coming, but on opening night, when the Gordon went for coffee and that light came on, people gasped.

I liked the scenes you referred to better than the strobe scene with Maroni

Okay that scene may violate my "you don't shoot Batman in full light EVER" rule, think how much more powerful that would have been if it had been the only scene in full light.

And I love the fight scene in the club, even though I think the moment when he pulls Maroni out of his seat is a little stilted.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

At one point in the movie, the Joker collects his half of the mob money and burns it. But I thought that the agreement was for the Joker to be paid half the money for killing Batman, not breaking Lao out of jail so that they could get the money back. He never killed Batman, so why is he collecting his reward?

The Joker's a liar and doesn't play by the rules. Furthermore, he changes his game halfway through - from hunting Batman for the mob, to simply causing chaos in Gotham and taking over the underworld to prove a point.

The Joker is a lot of things but he's not really a liar. Mostly, I think he is a man of his word. He seems to reassert this to the Russian when he says that he's only burning his half of the money.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

he lied abotu who was where, as Bats went after Rachel not Dent

 

[Saul]

Batman and Rachel falling out of the Penthouse and falling onto a car. Not hurt somehow.
Why not just use the Grappling gun.

 

[JacksonArcher]

At one point in the movie, the Joker collects his half of the mob money and burns it. But I thought that the agreement was for the Joker to be paid half the money for killing Batman, not breaking Lao out of jail so that they could get the money back. He never killed Batman, so why is he collecting his reward?

The Joker's a liar and doesn't play by the rules. Furthermore, he changes his game halfway through - from hunting Batman for the mob, to simply causing chaos in Gotham and taking over the underworld to prove a point.

The Joker is a lot of things but he's not really a liar. Mostly, I think he is a man of his word. He seems to reassert this to the Russian when he says that he's only burning his half of the money.

Yet all the money burns, which he says..."Everything burns". I really wouldn't put too much stock into what The Joker says. He's not an honest guy, really.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

he lied abotu who was where, as Bats went after Rachel not Dent

Assuming that he lied deliberately and he didn't actually confuse them himself.

The Joker's a liar and doesn't play by the rules. Furthermore, he changes his game halfway through - from hunting Batman for the mob, to simply causing chaos in Gotham and taking over the underworld to prove a point.

The Joker is a lot of things but he's not really a liar. Mostly, I think he is a man of his word. He seems to reassert this to the Russian when he says that he's only burning his half of the money.

Yet all the money burns, which he says..."Everything burns". I really wouldn't put too much stock into what The Joker says. He's not an honest guy, really.

I thought that the stack was only his half of the money. But then, this is the kind of thing that makes the movie really confusing.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

he lied abotu who was where, as Bats went after Rachel not Dent

Assuming that he lied deliberately and he didn't actually confuse them himself.

Heh - I like that idea. I read one review that remarked how the Joker was taunting Batman with the hero's own selfishness on that one, and I thought, that seems way too organized for the Joker. The idea that he just didn't care who was at which location, or couldn't remember, or maybe never even knew since it was henchmen who did it - that's much more Joker-y. (Like "mavericky", you know, funny and scary all at once...)

The Joker is a lot of things but he's not really a liar. Mostly, I think he is a man of his word. He seems to reassert this to the Russian when he says that he's only burning his half of the money.

Yet all the money burns, which he says..."Everything burns". I really wouldn't put too much stock into what The Joker says. He's not an honest guy, really.

I thought that the stack was only his half of the money. But then, this is the kind of thing that makes the movie really confusing.

It is only his half. He says so specifically.

The Chechen: You said you were a man of your word.
Joker: I am. I'm only burning my half.

'Course then he kills the Chechen, so whether or not he told the truth is pretty moot.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^Well, the Joker never said he wouldn't kill him, so there's no word to go back on.

BTW, I thought that that mobster was called "The Russian," not "The Chechen."

 

[The Doctor]

The ending with Batman taking the fall I thought was forced and more then a bit stupid.

That was my favorite part of the movie.

Of course, I also absolutely loved the mid-season Galactica finale, in which the hopes and dreams of everyone are completely and irrevocably shattered.

Sometimes things don't work out the way we'd like.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I'm with you, Stig. I love a tragedy, and Batman should be tragic most of the time. An occasional triumph here and there, but mostly it should be clear he's fighting a losing battle.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I don't object to tragedy, but the tragedy should make sense; there's no reason whatsoever for Batman to have to take the fall for Dent. It's totally arbitrary.

As for the "losing battle" idea, no, I don't agree with that either; that's the whole Miller idea, which is okay to a point.

 

[Saul]

As Batman explains Dent is a real Symbol of Justice that he can't be. If they blame Dent for his Crimes then all those Criminals he put behind bars would walk.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I don't object to tragedy, but the tragedy should make sense; there's no reason whatsoever for Batman to have to take the fall for Dent. It's totally arbitrary.

As for the "losing battle" idea, no, I don't agree with that either; that's the whole Miller idea, which is okay to a point.

Oy, one of these days Miller is going to stop getting credit for ideas that were around in Batman 15 years before he hit the scene. Many, many stories from the 70s dealt with the idea that Bruce Wayne could never win in his ultimate goal to stop people from dying by crime - that's what I meant by a losing battle. If you end too many stories with Batman triumphantly enjoying a victory and all of Gotham happy - it's not good Batman.

But, I agree that the "taking the fall" ending was a tiny bit tortured - mostly in Gordon's speech though, not so much in the basic idea.

 

[CaptainCanada]

As Batman explains Dent is a real Symbol of Justice that he can't be. If they blame Dent for his Crimes then all those Criminals he put behind bars would walk.

I agree with that - but absolutely nowhere in there is the requirement that Batman take the blame. The idea that leaving it unsolved will inevitably lead everybody to Dent is totally unsupported; the only incidental characters who know he even survived the blast at that point were Gordon's family. If you absolutely have to pin it all on someone definitively, blame the Joker.

 

[TK421]

I loved, loved, loved this movie.

I don't think Two Face is dead actually. I think they just killed "Harvey Dent" as a public figure.

My only real gripes with the film, and I know this is heresy, but I thought the cinematography was mostly pedestrian, and it was too long. It seemed to drag in the middle somewhere. Though don't ask me what to cut.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I thought that the stack was only his half of the money. But then, this is the kind of thing that makes the movie really confusing.

I thought it was every bit of the mob's money, judging off of The Chechen's reaction. Then again, the film has a lot of material and detail, so I can understand why little detail such as The Joker burning his half or the entire sum could be confusing, however sort of irrelevant in the whole grand scheme of things.

Like I said though, The Joker is a liar. I mean, he says he has no plans, but what about the ferries? The monologue at the end about scarring and ruining Dent? The Joker had plans, he just presented himself a different way, in the way he wanted to be presented, which explains his multiple back stories.

 

[Michael]

It took a while to realize the police marked the bills, let alone that they marked them by irradiating them.

Uh, didn't Batman mark them? Or am I misremembering things?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

you're right

 

[stj]

One nit that seems to have been overlooked was the Ballet alibi for the invasion of China. I don't like to be unduly cynical---but I guarantee you that somebody in that ballet troupe would be desperate to suck up (putting it politely) to a billionaire on his yacht. So far from being an alibi, there's a yacht full of witnesses that Bruce Wayne was incommunicado while Batman was buzzing Shanghai (wherever) and kidnapping a Chinese national. I guess it was supposed to be really cool that he could buy a bunch of sleazy foreigners just! like! that!

I chuckled out loud in the theater. Nothing like some inadvertent humor to ease the moviegoing experience, eh?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

One nit that seems to have been overlooked was the Ballet alibi for the invasion of China. I don't like to be unduly cynical---but I guarantee you that somebody in that ballet troupe would be desperate to suck up (putting it politely) to a billionaire on his yacht. So far from being an alibi, there's a yacht full of witnesses that Bruce Wayne was incommunicado while Batman was buzzing Shanghai (wherever) and kidnapping a Chinese national. I guess it was supposed to be really cool that he could buy a bunch of sleazy foreigners just! like! that!

I chuckled out loud in the theater. Nothing like some inadvertent humor to ease the moviegoing experience, eh?

that scene had one of my favorite quotes.

"you'll be alright?"
"Yeah, if you tell me the Russian for 'apply you own bloody sun-tan lotion.'"