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TATV sux!!11!!! vol.47 - the Jonathan Frakes edition

I read the first one and thought the writer didn't know the characters very well, especially my favorites.
Hm, I certainly can see why you disliked how they handled T'Pol, but... What was wrong about Archer? :confused:

Though, I got the impression he liked Trip.
This whole book was about rectifying the wrongs committed against that character and his fans, that's why he was the lead, and that's why there's no one else but him on the cover.

The way I see it, if TATV was a "Fuck you," TGTMD was a "Fuck you right back."

*inb4 Number 6: "I didn't see a 'Fuck you right back' line anywhere in that book"* :lol:
 
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It is going to be like a valentine to the fans, that is how Rick [Berman] sold it, and I thought "where is the valentine." I thought it was ill-conceived frankly, and to the credit of Scott Bakula and the company, they let us come in. The first thing I said to him was "if it was my show, I certainly wouldn’t someone coming in from another show to close us down" and he was such a gentleman and so patient and thoughtful and gracious. It was ill-fated and not a great idea, but it was fun to do with Marina [Sirtis]. It wasn’t really rooted in the show. [via Trekmovie]
Discuss...

I think claiming he said it sucked is taking what he said out of context.

I understand where he was coming from as every other series finale ended based around the crew and ship/station of that series.... they closed the chapter on their own without any of the other series interference. Having the final episode based being on TNG and using TNG characters takes a bit of wind out of the Enterprise.

Now I understand why they did it though, which was to solidify Enterprise's ties with the rest of the Star Trek Saga/Timeline.

I wouldn't say the final episode sucked (just watched it last week) but it does have a few loose ends not tied imo.

Otherwise it was a good Q&A from all the former TNG cast.... and Worf being a Vegan..... who would have thunk it.
 
A more logical explanation is that TNG, DS9 and VOY are the problem. ENT is great as a TV show and prequel to TOS. When the harebrained attempt was made to reintroduce characters from outside of the TOS/ENT realm is where the episode failed.
:guffaw:

So the other three series that came before Enterprise, that all reached 7 seasons and have their own fan following of each character/actor, is the problem?

You're going to blame the entire TNG/DS9/Voy era of cast/crew for Enterprise's failures because they pulled out Riker and Troi for the finale?

As far as I'm aware, many of the main issues so many had with Enterprise before it got canceled was that there was absolutely no tie-in to the rest of the saga (TOS/TNG/DS9/Voy) so they tried to tie it all in by using the Borg earlier in "Regeneration" and then again in the finale, they used Riker and Troi from TNG, who were part of the larger, more instrumental actions of making the NX-01 & crew exist in the first place (First Contact)...... and now it's all their fault that Enterprise, while by your claims was great as a tv show and prequel to TOS, sucked in the eyes of the majority of tv viewers and ST fans..... and ended up getting canned well before its time?

As I see it, if they were going to tie Enterprise in with the rest of the shows and overall story line, it made the most logic using cast/crew from TNG, then any other of the shows, since A) Picard's Enterprise was responsible for creating the NX-01 crew in the first place and B) Trying to use any of TOS cast/crew today would look pretty odd if one was trying to flash back to an older time/episode in TOS (Sisko and DS9 crew already did that).

In regards to some complaining it was a TNG episode because "The only real characters were Riker & Troi and everybody else were holograms" or "That's not how the story really happened due to Riker's interactions in the holodeck."

^ The story revolved more around the Enterprise crew then it did with Riker's issues with the Pegasus mission. Riker's problems was just the base for why he was looking into Enterprise's last mission. While he was interacting with the holograms of the Ent crew, the information was based around the mission, what actually happened, crew personalities through logs/interviews, etc. etc..... far more information then what Geordi had going for him with his re-creation of Leah Brahms which was also done before the various advancements with Holodeck technology by TNG's 7th season.

Riker wasn't just getting the facts on what happened during the Ent's last mission, he was also getting decently accurate insights from each crew member's personalities based on the crew's recorded/documented experiences.

And here's some food for thought:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chef_%28Enterprise_NX-01%29

Chef was never properly identified with a name or face through the entire Enterprise series until the final episode, which we're giving Riker as being the chef.... what's the possibility that Everything seen on Enterprise, from Season 1, all the way to the finale, was based around holodeck simulations and the observer of each mission filled the role as Chef in the programming?

"Chef was never given a name beyond his title. Chef was a character who was never seen, nor heard, with exception of the purposely cropped shot of the character that appeared in "The Catwalk", where he was played by regular background actor and stand-in Richard Sarstedt. This information is from the call sheet, where he was credited as Richard "Isaac Hayes" Sarstedt, a reference to singer Isaac Hayes, who portrayed the character "Chef" on "South Park" for nine seasons.

In a potential story pitched by Mike Sussman, Chef, played by William Shatner, would've been brought by Daniels into the 23rd century, preserving the timeline by impersonating a legendary descendant during an important historical event."

Added:

Another thing I'd like to add is that I think the other reason why they used the Holodeck as the playing field for the final episode, was because the original intention on ending Enterprise was supposed to be near the end of their trek and show what their overall accomplishments were, ie: forming the Federation..... but to just have it as its own episode like the rest where it jumps from year 4 to suddenly year 10 without explanation, would have been even worse then what everybody's sitting around complaining about now.

You'd have either a story that took place in year 4 that explains a situation that everybody is magically accepting that the NX-01's mission was a success after only 4 years of space travel and then the federation is formed (a bit more unrealistic) ~ or have it jump to year 10 like they did (but without the holodeck situation) and be left there with yer thumb up yer arse wondering wtf happened to the last 6 years in between the last episode you watched?
 
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^ The story revolved more around the Enterprise crew then it did with Riker's issues with the Pegasus mission. Riker's problems was just the base for why he was looking into Enterprise's last mission. While he was interacting with the holograms of the Ent crew, the information was based around the mission, what actually happened, crew personalities through logs/interviews, etc. etc..... far more information then what Geordi had going for him with his re-creation of Leah Brahms which was also done before the various advancements with Holodeck technology by TNG's 7th season.

Riker wasn't just getting the facts on what happened during the Ent's last mission, he was also getting decently accurate insights from each crew member's personalities based on the crew's recorded/documented experiences.

I don't agree at all, it's all TNG, ENT characters are holodec characters they seemed different to the extent that gave me impression that actors were uncomfortable playing them. I could almost see 101010101111000 in their eyes:eek:;)

And faced with such a bad final, I would much rather accept some lame maybe even cliché final episode that would include characters we grew to love in the previous 97-or-something episodes.
And to believe that
"Chef was never properly identified with a name or face through the entire Enterprise series until the final episode, which we're giving Riker as being the chef.... what's the possibility that Everything seen on Enterprise, from Season 1, all the way to the finale, was based around holodeck simulations and the observer of each mission filled the role as Chef in the programming?"
makes me cry, I mean really, let's call all Ent mini-series for crew on Enteprise E.
 
"Chef was never properly identified with a name or face through the entire Enterprise series until the final episode, which we're giving Riker as being the chef.... what's the possibility that Everything seen on Enterprise, from Season 1, all the way to the finale, was based around holodeck simulations and the observer of each mission filled the role as Chef in the programming?"
makes me cry, I mean really, let's call all Ent mini-series for crew on Enterprise E.
Let not your heart be troubled!

That's just one opinion or POV. Here's another POV, from someone actually employed by the Star Trek franchise. He states that only the events of "These Are The Voyages" are a "Holodeck Program" and therefore only the events of "These Are The Voyages" are considered to be "unreliable". I personally consider this POV far more plausible, given its source.

“This story presented us with an extraordinary circumstance that so far as I can tell exists nowhere else in the Star Trek canon: the fact that the events related in These Are the Voyages... were presented at a remove, filtered through the prism of a holodeck program. We used the holodeck as a continuity loophole by questioning the quality of the program that Will Riker was running, which made the holodeck a classic case of what’s known in prose fiction as ‘the unreliable narrator’,” Michael explains, and elaborates that “for all we know, Riker’s NX-01 simulation program could have been written hastily only a month earlier, and might have been the product of shoddy research."
Full Article Here:
http://unreality-sf.net/interviews/mam.html

Another thing to keep in mind is that Memory Alpha is nothing but a Wiki. It is subject to the errors, opinions, thoughts, biases and ulterior motives of its posters. It is no more authoritative than anything posted on here, or anywhere else on the internet. The only way you can be absolutely certain of what went on in TATV is to ask the writers themselves what their intent was. Until someone does this and gets a straight answer, its all opinion. So ... if what you hear doesn't seem right to you, discard it and go with your gut. :techman:
 
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Thank you, Middleman :)
I agree - I've read the full article, and I love it!
I didn't know novels were so good and popular, now I have to get them ;)
 
Ah, Unreality SF... Home of those delightfully "objective" reviews... :lol:

Eh, gotta give it to them, they make up for it with those interviews...
 
The first thing I said to him was "if it was my show, I certainly wouldn’t someone coming in from another show to close us down"
And yet that didn't stop Frakes from doing it.:rolleyes:
I've always felt, that while, like Braga and to an extent Manny Coto, Jonathan Frakes feels some measure of responsibility for TATV, my impression of how this works is something like this:

Studio Dude: Hey, Johnny, how's it hanging? We've got a great idea for you and Marina to be involved in the last episode, it's like a little love note to the fans!

Frakes: Well, these guys have never steered me wrong before. They love the fans! Sure, why not! Send over the contract!

Two weeks later - script arrives.

Frakes: Oh. My..... Oh dear. What have I done!?!?!?!?!?!!??!!?!?!?


Not really his fault.
 
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I do think it goes that way. First you agree to appear, and then you get the script. Nimoy also agreed to appear in Star Trek 2009 only after a meeting where they told him where they would go, without even having a script (and yes, I know he still liked the script, or at least his parts).

And you always see everyone of the involved praise a movie or or TV episode, and everyone is so proud at the premiere and a couple of weeks after it, and it's the best work they've ever done, and the cast was so wonderful, and the director was so focused and lovely and really understood everything and woah and oooh and aaah. But a year after it, they bash it and say it's the most horrible thing they've ever done, blame the director because he was a dick, blame the studio because they are creativity Nazis, etc... . Do actors, writers, producers, etc... have a line in their contract that forces them to promote a movie/show even though they actually hated it?
 
Do actors, writers, producers, etc... have a line in their contract that forces them to promote a movie/show even though they actually hated it?

Actually yes, a lot of times that is indeed the case. part of the deal includes promotig the project once the advertising campaigns (or in the case of high profile TV episodes like premires and season or series finales.)

Also, remeber that acting is hardly 'steady'; and you NEVER want to burn bridges in that, the person who DID involves you in a lousy project (which you still got paid for), may one day have another (and better) project; but if you blame him or badmouth that previous project, he will probably not think too highly of come casting time.
 
I think it was just a shame they jumped so far ahead. 6 years was a bit much. I would have rather seen the coalition of Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, Earth, and Alpha Centauri done right after the events of Terra Nova. Maybe the final episode could have had an attack by an unknown species on all five planets (romulans), than all five align to fight off the threat. The ending could have been similar, the big speech and whatnot, than show all the fleets coming together with the NX-01 leading the way for the end credits.
 
See, the thing also is that actors don't take things so personal. It's just work.

Nimoy is no different than Frakes or any other actor. I'm pretty sure he refused to appear in Generations because his paycheck and role wasn't as big as Shatner's.
He claimed he refused to do Generations for the same reasons he appeared in Star Trek 2009 and Fringe: a character that spoke interchangeable lines and could have been played by anyone. The role of Spock Prime could have gone to Picard, too, or some random stranger from the future who fights Nero and knows a bit about history and transwarp beaming.
Not so. Using Nimoy's Spock was a device - that moment when he recognized Pine as James T. Kirk made Pine into James T. Kirk in a way that Picard never could have.
 
Not so. Using Nimoy's Spock was a device - that moment when he recognized Pine as James T. Kirk made Pine into James T. Kirk in a way that Picard never could have.
True. Nimoy's main role was legitimizing nuTrek. But, it was done in a way that he be an important part of the "story" as well.
 
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