Tain or Martok
- Thread starter Photon
- Start date
No way to know really. Tain was captured in The Die is Cast, and I believe that was the real Martok in TWOTW. He knew Worf, and behaved most authentically with respect to his son's honor. But then, he was pressing the attack on the Cardassians which eventually led them into the hands of the Dominion. But who's to know for sure? Timo? 
The Changling Lovok said that the threat of the Cardassians and the Romulans now eliminated in the Omarian Nebula, the Founders could now focus on the Klingons and the Federation. This would suggest that they had not yet begun implimenting their plan to bring down the Klingon Empire; thus Martok was probably captured after Tain was. Also in 2373, the real Martok said that he had been held in the internment camp for two years. Since TWOTW occurred in early 2372, Martok apparently was captured sometime before that episode yet after "The Die Is Cast" in late 2371.
HOWEVER - In TWOTW Martok cuts his hand and it bleeds. So either the real Martok lost sense of time while imprisoned or the Founders found some way around the whole "blood" issue.
HOWEVER - In TWOTW Martok cuts his hand and it bleeds. So either the real Martok lost sense of time while imprisoned or the Founders found some way around the whole "blood" issue.
I think Joseph Sisko said it best, when he was refusing to do ing the blood screening. he told capt. Sisko that if he was a changling that he would find some poor soul and suck there blood, and would bleed on cue. (not exact quote, but that was the gist of it).
Way of the Warrior, Martok was a changeling. Period. Did you not miss the whole thing about the invasion was planned by the Dominion? Plus that was 2372, and the text suggests he was captured in 2371, probably right after Tain was.
I'd say Tain was first- how long ago had the attempt on the Founder home world been? I thought it was quite a while ([FONT=Arial]Improbable Cause / The Die is Cast[/FONT]), it was in 2371. But... Martok had been there for 2 years... That was in season 5, so his capture was in season 3... wow... hmmm...
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Huh..great thread. I hadn't thought about it. But Martok seems to have been at that camp pretty long too...prior to Tain or not? Don't know. But the line in the die is cast certainly makes it seem as if the Founders hadn't yet their efforts against the klingon...so I go with after Tain...
Rob
scorpio
Just because the Founder said that all they had to be worried about was the Klingons and the Federation doesn't mean Martok wasn't taken already. He could have been kidnapped by that point. There was obviously a Colonel Lovok until the Founders got involved. They need someone to impersonate him. It took some time for the plan to unravel.
The Dominion seem very light on their feet. Lovok said they caught wind of the OO/TS conspiracy to attack the Founder's HW and got in.
The Dominion caught Sisko w/son and friend and quickly implemented a plan to get a spy over to the Alpha
Of course, what happened during The Search from just a simple mission to make first contact.
The Martok in WOTW was a changeling; he had both of his eyes. The real Martok lost one in battle with Jem'Hadar. Any time you see Martok with both eyes intact, it's a changeling.
Plus, in WOTW, Worf publicly embarrassed Drex (Martok's son), but when the real Martok meets Worf he just says that he's heard of him - if it had been the real Martok in WOTW, he would never have forgotten something like that.
Plus, in WOTW, Worf publicly embarrassed Drex (Martok's son), but when the real Martok meets Worf he just says that he's heard of him - if it had been the real Martok in WOTW, he would never have forgotten something like that.
Ahhh... good points... esp. that first one since his eye was damaged while he was in the internment camp...
Nice call Baba
Logically, Martok having two eyes means nothing. If he has two eyes, either he wasn't captured yet or he was a changeling replacement (He definitely had two eyes at some point before being captured). So the only thing you can determine by counting his eyes is that anytime you can't count past one, he's not a changeling.
Well, he had 2 eyes before like you say- and he lost one while incarcerated. So that means both- every time we saw Martok 2 years before- it was a changeling, and that the Founders either weren't in touch with anyone in the internment camp to make the change- so the Founder could adapt and make an excuse for it maybe... I dunno, just helps with the thought process more than anything...
Well true know one knows for sure but why would the Founders kidnap Martok prior to the die is cast?
