Table Manners...WTF?

[Gary7]

In my family's case, elbows were banned from the table because putting them there encourages resting your head in your hand, which leads to slouching. It's not a "respectful" thing to do at the table. In actuality, it's really not hard to sit up straight and keep your elbows off the table. While I didn't quite get it as a kid, I later came to appreciate it as an adult.

As for taking the plates away in a restaurant before everyone is done, I think it's OK as long as you are asked if it's alright to take your plate. You can always decline. I have to say that when I'm out dining with friends, nobody really cares if someone's plate it taken while others are still eating. But when I'm on a date, it's a different story. I'd never let the waiter take my plate until my date was done with her meal. It just doesn't feel considerate otherwise.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I always thought the elbows thing was to reduce accidents/knocking things over.

The "no elbows" thing I never really understood.

One of the reasons for it is to prevent one, especially when cutting food, from shaking the table.

I think one reason for the no elbows rule is that when you lean on your elbows (i.e., put your weight on them) and shift your body, you can shake the table. Shaking the table can spill drinks and knock things over. That's very easy to do, especially if you are engaged in conversation. I know from experience, because I dared to be uncouth in order to figure out why it was best to be couth.

 

[RoJoHen]

I always thought the elbows thing was to reduce accidents/knocking things over.

The "no elbows" thing I never really understood.

One of the reasons for it is to prevent one, especially when cutting food, from shaking the table.

I think one reason for the no elbows rule is that when you lean on your elbows (i.e., put your weight on them) and shift your body, you can shake the table. Shaking the table can spill drinks and knock things over. That's very easy to do, especially if you are engaged in conversation. I know from experience, because I dared to be uncouth in order to figure out why it was best to be couth.

My suggestion would be to invest in a sturdier table.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I always thought the elbows thing was to reduce accidents/knocking things over.

One of the reasons for it is to prevent one, especially when cutting food, from shaking the table.

I think one reason for the no elbows rule is that when you lean on your elbows (i.e., put your weight on them) and shift your body, you can shake the table. Shaking the table can spill drinks and knock things over. That's very easy to do, especially if you are engaged in conversation. I know from experience, because I dared to be uncouth in order to figure out why it was best to be couth.

My suggestion would be to invest in a sturdier table.

Yeah, I always bring that up when I'm invited out to eat, as a guest at someone's house or to a restaurant.

 

[Deks]

While at work today, we got into a random discussion about proper table etiquette -- using the correct utensil for certain types of food...proper place settings...keeping your elbows off the table -- and we all realized we have no idea WHY we do any of these things.

Why is a salad fork a salad fork? Why can't I use my regular dinner fork for both my salad AND my dinner?

Why can't I put my elbows on the table? Why is it considered rude? Do my elbows offend you? Are my elbows somehow dirtier than the rest of my forearm?

Who the hell invented this shit?

I don't quarrel over which fork I'll use, and I do sometimes keep my elbows on the table - and if someone has an issue with it, I tell them the following:
if I can extend enough courtesy to tolerate your table manners and the way you eat, it might be prudent for you to do the same.

I simply use 1 spoon for soup... 1 fork for meats, potatoes (and possibly desert if I have some) which also includes 1 knife.

Having several different forks and knives for every dish seems fundamentally demented and idiotic if you ask me (not to mention wasteful).

 

[Naira]

I learned my more "official" table manners from a cooking book my mother had which included a few pages on proper table manners. I already knew most of the stuff in there as part of common sense.

Once, I had dinner in a very "proper" hotel restaurant during a conference. It was the first time that every single rule I had in mind was followed by everyone. Surprisingly, I enjoyed it, everything seemed to work in an excellent way. Oh, and the waiters did serve from the left side!

 

[Maurice]

When your elbows are on the table you're more likely to encroach on the space of a diner next to you, and to elbow them or a piece of dinnerware. That's one practical downside to it when you're at a table full of people.

As to multiple utensils, yes, they're specific to the courses because they're designed for the kinds of foods being served. My mother was from Italy and she had the cutest little ice cream/gelato spoons that were actually shaped more like little snow shovels than conventional spoons, and they were much more effective for eating frozen desserts than a regular spoon.

I learned to eat with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right, and you didn't trade hands. You cut bites as you need, and you use the knife in conjunction with the fork to pick up food that's not easy to get onto a fork (peas for instance). On the other hand, twirling pasta onto a fork is something I learned at a young age, and I still laugh when I see adults having to use a spoon with the fork to accomplish it.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

On the other hand, twirling pasta onto a fork is something I learned at a young age, and I still laugh when I see adults having to use a spoon with the fork to accomplish it.

I laugh even more when someone sees me not using a spoon and tells me I'm doing it wrong.

But even using a spoon isn't as bad as cutting pasta with a knife! My mother (the not-Italian side of my family) used to do that, even when we were traveling in Italy. Can you imagine how humiliating it was for her teenage daughter to be seen with her?

 

[marillion]

^^ I had no idea that was a big no-no... When I make spaghetti or other long pasta, I usually just break it in half as it's going into the pot, so cutting it isn't necessary anyway...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I have it on good advice that breaking it in half is also a no-no.

Signed,

A breaking-it-in-half knife-cutter.

 

[iguana_tonante]

On the other hand, twirling pasta onto a fork is something I learned at a young age, and I still laugh when I see adults having to use a spoon with the fork to accomplish it.

I laugh even more when someone sees me not using a spoon and tells me I'm doing it wrong.

Give me their names. My vendetta will be terrible, and swift.

But even using a spoon isn't as bad as cutting pasta with a knife!

I had no idea that was a big no-no...

Cutting pasta creates sharp, uneven angles that makes the pieces rough and less pleasurable to eat. The shapes were developed during hundreds of years for various reasons (ease of cooking, comfort of eating, combination and agglutination with various sauces, etc). Do not mess with them.

When I make spaghetti or other long pasta, I usually just break it in half as it's going into the pot, so cutting it isn't necessary anyway...

I prefer to keep them long, but if you really need to reduce them (cooking in a small pot, for example), breaking them before cooking is the correct way to do it. Generally speaking: when cooking, never let "rules" interfere with your common sense-- just be sure you do have common sense on your side!

 

[trekkiedane]

/.../ twirling pasta onto a fork is something I learned at a young age, and I still laugh when I see adults having to use a spoon with the fork to accomplish it.

When I was 'at a young age', pasta was eaten by cutting it with a knife and spooning with the fork. -Pasta wasn't really well known up here in the cold north! -I then learned the spoon-trick by watching the German parts of the family eat pasta-dishes... And eventually I found out that the spoon wasn't good for anything in the process all by myself

^^ I had no idea that was a big no-no... When I make spaghetti or other long pasta, I usually just break it in half as it's going into the pot, so cutting it isn't necessary anyway...

That's about as bad as using boil-in-a-bag rice!!!!

First time I saw it, I fell in love with Arne Jacobsens cutlery:

The mentioned "other futuristic films" include Enterprise -strangely they only used the forks in that though.​

Personally I only have the forks, spoons, (steak-)knives and (short) tea-spoons atm - But am thinking I need the buttering knives as well though.

Some of the other utensils in the series:

 

[rhubarbodendron]

Same here whith this boat-shaped salt and pepper thingy by Professor Wagenfeld:

My mom bought one in the 60s and I got mine 25 years later =). It's still available - the design is absolutely timeless.

 

[trekkiedane]

^"Timeless" - yeah, and beautiful! -but not any good if you like your pepper freshly ground -That's always been my problem; there are very few S&P-sets with a pepper-grinder and a salt-shaker: Most sets are either both shakers or both grinders...

ETA:

Speaking of salt&pepper: God manners include not seasoning your food before tasting it -in fact, it's considered an insult to the host if you don't at least taste your food before adding salt and/or pepper (or whatever other condiment or whatnot might be on the table, like the ever-not belonging sweetener called ketchup).
To me that's just the thing we're talking about here: good manners. -How do you feel about this?

 

[rhubarbodendron]

I couldn't agree more.
And though I have to confess that I am a ketchup addict, I almost fainted when the other day the lady in the butcher shop asked me if I wanted ketchup with my Leberkas (a Bavarian meat loaf specialty, traditionally eaten with sweet mustard) .
O tempora o mores!

 

[trekkiedane]

While admittedly not in Bavaria, I've had the same weirdness happen to me with Leberknödel!

 

[Gary7]

Trekkiedane, I love Jacobsen designed cutlery and utensils. The minimalist designs can be so amazing to behold and use, although there have been some designers who've made designs that aren't very ergonomic.

So strange with the knife shape, how the handle extends below the cutting part. I imagine it's intended as a little extra safety (so you don't have a sharp edge easily touched by the fingers), but it looks like it would force a lower cutting angle and that could be a problem with a plate having a raised edge to it. However, the dinner plates sold by the same designer probably have very low profile edges.


Regarding the adding of salt & pepper, I'd think it would be seen as more of an insult if you add it after tasting, as it would be a signal that the chef didn't season the food enough. In any event, these days with people being more low salt conscious, it's more common to use less of it in cooking. Thus if someone wants to add it, it shouldn't be thought of as an negative to the chef's creation.

I'm also one who prefers pepper freshly ground, rather than out of a shaker, especially when it's over a salad!

 

[sojourner]

So strange with the knife shape, how the handle extends below the cutting part. I imagine it's intended as a little extra safety (so you don't have a sharp edge easily touched by the fingers), but it looks like it would force a lower cutting angle and that could be a problem with a plate having a raised edge to it.

The blade is on the other side, notice the direction of the curve at the tip. Also, the blade always faces the plate when setting silverware.

And personally, while that silverware looks cool, I prefer forks with 4 tines. Strange, I know, but that's me.

 

[trekkiedane]

And personally, while that silverware looks cool, I prefer forks with 4 tines. Strange, I know, but that's me.

As do I. took me some time getting used to these

 

[FPAlpha]

Personally i think one can overdo it with table manners.. if one observes basic manners like they are taught by good parents (like mine) you should be fine everywhere.

I'm referring to eating with your mouth closed, as noiseless as possible, not eating with your fingers of course (unless it's a meal that can't be eaten otherwise like shellfish), not picking the nose while at the table etc..

Everything that comes after like having 3 different sets of forks for every course or from which side the dinner is served is not a world i liive in and don't believe i want to.