Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS**

[Jax]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I like the idea of the Series Finale and BABYLON PRIME but to be honest I prefer what we got plus I doubt the franchise would of lasted long enough to have BABYLON PRIME run long enough to finish off the plot nor what would be the point of the same characters on a different name show.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I love B5, it's my all time favorite show. But given every televised product JMS has made since then, I think he's a one trick pony. Particularly with Crusade but also with Jeremiah, it felt like the exact same words, the exact same plots and stories, the same characters, almost verbatim. After all, he poured twenty years of his life into B5. Everything afterwards seems like a recycle.

Now, I haven't read any of his comic books aside from Rising Stars. Rising Stars was absolutely a B5 retread. But what about his Spider-Man and Thor work? Is it original? The Spider-Totem stuff I heard of sounds a little Vorlon.

 

[zenophite]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

^I'm sort of in the same place you are Mr. Light. I love B5 but i think the televised stuff did get progressively worse up to the most recent and honestly pointless Lost Tales movie. Jeremiah wasn't bad but it did lag a bit - maybe it was due to interference as he claimed also for crusade. All i know is that for Lost Tales he demanded full creative control and i wasn't impressed with it.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

But what about his Spider-Man and Thor work? Is it original? The Spider-Totem stuff I heard of sounds a little Vorlon.

It didn't seem at all "Vorlon" to me. It was genuinely mystical, out-and-out supernatural fantasy rooted in mythology. I suppose if one were consciously looking to draw parallels, one could cite the idea of the hero resisting the attempts of higher powers to guide and define his life, but that's a very tenuous parallel, and it's hardly a theme that appeared for the first time in human history in Babylon 5. JMS's Spidey work felt like JMS, but good, fresh JMS. In fact, it felt a lot fresher to me than the last couple of seasons of B5 did.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

All I knew about it was that some mystical god was responsible for Spidey getting his powers and wanted to manipulate him to do its bidding or something like that. I haven't actually read any of it.

 

[Orac Zen]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

Many thanks to chrisspringob for providing that synopsis.

I've read it a few times and thought about it a bit and keep arriving at the same conclusion others have: What we got was much better than this sounds. I wonder if it was the very earliest draft of what JMS had in mind and he went forward from there?

Having said I'm more than happy with what we got, I was talking about it with a friend yesterday and she pointed out that this version doesn't have Byron. That's a definite point in its favour.

 

[Cranston]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I love B5, it's my all time favorite show. But given every televised product JMS has made since then, I think he's a one trick pony. Particularly with Crusade but also with Jeremiah, it felt like the exact same words, the exact same plots and stories, the same characters, almost verbatim. After all, he poured twenty years of his life into B5. Everything afterwards seems like a recycle.

Not to mention his Star Trek reboot proposal ....

 

[firehawk12]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

Honestly though, his Trek reboot is kind of what JJ Abrams is doing with the films anyway.

And jeez, maybe Sheridan coming on was really a good thing...

 

[Jan]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I love B5, it's my all time favorite show. But given every televised product JMS has made since then, I think he's a one trick pony. Particularly with Crusade but also with Jeremiah, it felt like the exact same words, the exact same plots and stories, the same characters, almost verbatim. After all, he poured twenty years of his life into B5. Everything afterwards seems like a recycle.

Then you're trying entirely too hard to make unlike stories and characters fit a mold you want them to, imo. Especially when trying to compare Jeremiah to B5. Yes, JMS does repeat themes and sometimes dialogue but that's hardly a recycle.

Jan

 

[Neroon]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

BTW... my daughter read the JMS intro to "Joe Cuts" last night. She's impressed that I know the person he was referring to. And yes, she was also quite impressed by the breadth and depth of your insanity for that project, Jan.

Reminds her a bit of her old man's.

 

[Meredith]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I am glad Sinclair left, it worked well with the whole world without end storyline.

 

[Angel4576]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I love B5, it's my all time favorite show. But given every televised product JMS has made since then, I think he's a one trick pony. Particularly with Crusade but also with Jeremiah, it felt like the exact same words, the exact same plots and stories, the same characters, almost verbatim. After all, he poured twenty years of his life into B5. Everything afterwards seems like a recycle.

Now, I haven't read any of his comic books aside from Rising Stars. Rising Stars was absolutely a B5 retread. But what about his Spider-Man and Thor work? Is it original? The Spider-Totem stuff I heard of sounds a little Vorlon.

I can see what you mean. Jeremiah explored a lot of the same themes that B5 did, especially around empire-building. That being said, he's so good at it, and I've enjoyed the exploration in whichever form he's raised it. Jeremiah's second season, for me, is as good as anything he's ever done.

To the OP, great post, many thanks. A very interesting read, and another vote for the 'glad we got what we got' camp. Whilst it would have been interesting, the original version isn't IMO, as good as what we got.

Not sure what to make of the Sakai 'mind rape' thing. Doesn't that kind of sound similar to what happened to Talia? Initially I thought that that might be something that they passed from Sakai to Talia when Sakai didn't come back for season 2. However, you had the scenes with Kosh in season 1 where he recorded Talia's memories, thereby indicating that Talia's story was already in motion.

I also always assumed that Sakai would have gone to Z'ha'dum and basically fulfilled the Anna Sheridan role.

All very interesting stuff!

 

[Christopher]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

^^I believe that Talia's arc with the implanted "sleeper" personality was originally going to be done with Laurel Takashima, the pilot-movie first officer.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

Not sure what to make of the Sakai 'mind rape' thing. Doesn't that kind of sound similar to what happened to Talia? Initially I thought that that might be something that they passed from Sakai to Talia when Sakai didn't come back for season 2. However, you had the scenes with Kosh in season 1 where he recorded Talia's memories, thereby indicating that Talia's story was already in motion.

At least as of the time "The Gathering" was produced, it was Takashima who was going to be the traitor. She would be the one to shoot Garibaldi in the back in "Chrysalis", and we the audience would know, but the rest of the B5 characters wouldn't expose her until the end of Season 2. But the plot synopsis I posted doesn't mention that, because (presumably) it was written when JMS knew that Takashima would no longer be available, and hadn't yet figured out what to do with that storyline.

I also always assumed that Sakai would have gone to Z'ha'dum and basically fulfilled the Anna Sheridan role.

While the plot synopsis doesn't explicitly state this, I think there's a good chance that the Sakai mindwipe story was supposed to have something to do with the Shadows. (I mean, she was an archaeologist, right? So finding Z'ha'dum, or whatever it was called in the early drafts, would have made some sense.) I guess it wouldn't have played exactly like the Anna Sheridan / Z'ha'dum story (or else JMS would have mentioned it in the outline, as that was a pretty important story in the series as filmed), but I'm guessing there was some similarity.

 

[Noname Given]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I love B5, it's my all time favorite show. But given every televised product JMS has made since then, I think he's a one trick pony. Particularly with Crusade but also with Jeremiah, it felt like the exact same words, the exact same plots and stories, the same characters, almost verbatim. After all, he poured twenty years of his life into B5. Everything afterwards seems like a recycle.

Not to mention his Star Trek reboot proposal ....

I had only seen and heard snippets of it - but after reading the whole thing, I'm happy Paramount passed on on Babylon Trek. WTF is it with JMS and ancient mysterious one million+ years old races and the need for whatever government exists to 'keep it a secret'? Sheesh.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

Thanks so much for posting this!

I think it nicely explodes the longstanding myth that JMS planned out every detail in advance - a myth that is sometimes used to criticize shows like nuBSG or Lost (you know, when people shriek with horror that 'THEY'RE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG!!11!!').

Clearly B5 evolved considerably during the development and production of the show, and JMS very much "made it up as he went along" - and it's pretty clear that the final product was far superior to his original planned storyline.

Again, thanks for the synopsis. I'd love to own all 15 of the scriptbooks, but could never justify the expense.

 

[firehawk12]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

Well, he lost two cast members from the pilot to the series premiere. Then lost a lead after season 1. Then lost another lead after season 4... not to mention he thought the show was gonna be cancelled after S4... so he had to change a lot.

That said, I'm sure he had more of a plan than say the people who do Lost or BSG.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

Well, he knew that he was going to slowly introduce the main bad guys (Shadows), and he more or less had planned what their motivation was (though that was tweaked somewhat). That right there is about 1000 times more planning than just about every other arc-based show seems to have...before you even get into the other stuff that was planned.

 

[Jan]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

BTW... my daughter read the JMS intro to "Joe Cuts" last night. She's impressed that I know the person he was referring to. And yes, she was also quite impressed by the breadth and depth of your insanity for that project, Jan.

Now, now...I think JMS may have overstated the case just a leettle bitty bit. Crazy, that I'll grant (though a lot of people admit that doing the read-and-watch thing is something they always meant to do themselves). But insane would be if, after doing the Joe Cuts, I decided to do a line-by-line comparison of all of the script versions I have. THAT would be insane since nobody else could ever get any use out of it. See the difference?

Reminds her a bit of her old man's.

Great minds *do* think alike, don't they?

Jan
The Insane

 

[Tulin]

Re: Synopsis of JMS's synopsis of the "original arc for B5" **SPOILERS

I think it's interesting how JMS had been on record for so long that Babylon 5 wasn't some kind of deep space franchise, and it was a story with a beginning, middle, and end in five years and that would be it.

We all know that the movies, Crusade, the Lost Tales, Legend of the Rangers, a couple dozen novels, and who knows what else came after, but it's interesting that the idea of expanding the universe existed from almost day one.

I always took his derisive "deep space franchise" comment to be aimed at the merchandise and marketing sector of science fiction and particularly Star Trek.

That was the reason why, in the early days, you could only buy a B5 cap, mug and a few other things. Joe didn't want the show cheapened through excessive licensing.

B5 was ABOUT something, not just how many limited number dolls you could sell to fat, gullible, thirty three year old virgins.