Symbiont guilt

[Anthony Sabre]

OK, so I've been researching the evolution of Dax's 6th host, Joran Balar.

In Equilibrium he is portrayed as a man with a violent temper who never should have been joined. This violent temper leads him to kill a teacher at the Institute. Cause of Joran's death not mentioned in the episode but I doubt he got much older after that.

Later in Facets Sisko takes on the Joran persona and basically becomes psychotic.

In Field of Fire Ezri taps into Joran and he repeatedly attempts to convince her to kill someone.

Finally in The Lives of Dax (book), Joran is painted as a serial killer and is eventually executed. By now it's well established that Joran was a bad person, deserving of death. One problem. The Dax symbiont is guilty too.

That each host is a new entity was established in the episode Dax. But that doesn't escape the fact that Dax was a co-conspirator in at least one murder. I'm going to take a surprising step for me, considering Dax is one of my fav Trek characters, and say the symbiont should have been terminated along with Joran. If not that then it should have been excluded from ever being joined again. Too dangerous and frankly unjust. It continues on with more hosts, new lives, without answering for the lives it participated in taking.

Agree? Rebuttals?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Well, I think all these arguments were made (In a roundabout way, of course.) in the show itself.

As it was stated, the symbionts are rare and highly valued and thus terminating one was simply not an option. Besides, doing so would sort of be regressive to the culture. It was then decided that trying to mask the persona was the best option.

However, I do somewhat agree with what you say. On the other hand, I think there's potential for a great story there.

 

[nx1701g]

Basically, as you said, it would retread the argument from the episode Dax. Are they separate or are they the same being. Why would Dax be guilty though. It hasn't been said anywhere that the symbiont can override the host's actions.

 

[Timo]

...OTOH, the only reason we think the host can override the symbiont's actions is because the hosts possessed by symbionts tell us so. The truth might be very different.

I'm not sure the Joran incarnation was all that bad as far as symbionts in general go. I mean, by human standards he was. But Trills (that is, the symbionts, which I consider the actual Trill species) don't seem to sweat human morals, and the older ones seem to be quite the daredevils, always seeking novel experiences, seldom paying attention to rules. What is a murder or two among friends? Especially since it's not among friends, as the Joran incarnation apparently didn't murder any Trills. All he ever killed was insignificant humanoids.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[AdmiralGarak]

^You can't accuse the entire symbiont species of being bigoted, homicidial, callous murders based on one bad joining. In fact, the whole affair of covering up the Joran joining deflates the entire argument. Dax, Kahn, and Odan prove that this isn't remotely true.

Also-- Both species are true Trill. Period. It's the same deal as with the multiple Xindi species.

 

[Pegaritaville]

Even though the Dax symbiont does appear to have a lot of influence over the host, IMO it's not enough to warrant assigning guilt for crimes that are committed by a joined entity. The fact that Joren was able to exert enough power to keep the Dax symbiont for months (despite the fact that he was deemed unsuitable) leads me to think that the symbiont's power to control the joined entity is limited. Limited, but not absent: "Invasive Procedures" shows that a symbiont can influence the host- even a nutjob like Verad.

One of my pet peeves about the episode "Blood Oath" was that they basically excused Jadzia's actions because she was joined to Dax. No longer was the symbiont just a source of wisdom, knowledge and composure, but a source of emotional influence as well. Not quite as controlling as how the Trill were portrayed in TNG's "The Host", but it was a step in that direction.

 

[Timo]

It wouldn't really surprise me if the Trill were close to Goa'uld in basic nature and ethics, but with a thin veneer of Tok'ra to gilt the modern version of their society. That is, the modern symbionts would allow the host some independence out of cultural choice, but there would always be a conservative asshole or two who would dominate their hosts - and the majority would tolerate that behavior, because the political faction that markets politeness as a necessity would be weak, and the one that markets it as mere convenience to fool the humanoids would be the more powerful one. Any attempt to label the "natural" dominant behavior as "abnormal" would weaken the position of the majority. Politicians would have to tread more carefully around condemning of the natural instinct than politicians in the US tread around condemning God.

Even if the symbiont can plead diminished capacity or something, it is still at least an accomplice to the crimes of the host. Trill law would have to accommodate the fact, yet what we know of Trill law seems to emphasize disconnection from past lives and deeds. Outsiders might see it differently, but apparently the Trill themselves are convinced that it's not a good idea to prosecute across host-swaps.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[J47]

If one takes for granted that Joran Belar wasn't a homicidal maniac unto himself long before getting a symbiont, then I'd always assumed that the joining of Joran and Dax essentially created a chemical imbalance. If that's the case, then you could probably argue that during its joining to Joran, Dax (plus host) was temporarily insane. Even in our moral culture, there's leeway in the courts for this; in Trill society, covering it up would certainly be the easiest course to follow.

 

[Michael]

Funny, I read the thread title as "Symbiont quilt"! It would kinda make sense that the Trill sew quilts and give them to the next host, wouldn't it?

 

[Navaros]

I agree that the slug should be terminated.

Although I would feel that way regardless of Joran.

No slug IMO = two less useless, annoying character existing on the show and dragging the show down. They shoulda terminated the slug in Emissary IMO.

In any case, I don't buy the argument that the symbiont is innocent because it has little control. They are supposed to be merged beings with a large part of both making up the personality of combined entity. If symbionts can't accept the heat for taking responibility for their host bodies' nefarious actions, then they should stay out of the kitchen by refusing to have anything to do with Trills. With great power comes great responsibility etc. Symbionts shouldn't get to cop out of that.

 

[Kegek]

"Dax" never really settled the problem of whether the symbiont was guilty for the crimes of the host. It debated it; but it provided a deus ex machina to absolve Dax rather than settle the issue. We know that removing the symbiont from a host after a certain period of acclimitisation means death; Joran may have been killed simply by having the symbiont removed from him.

So, as for the guilt of the symbiont; let me first make some few uncontroversal observations:
* Joran Dax is guilty of murder.
* Jadzia (pre-Dax) is not guilty of murder.
* Ezri Tigan is not guilty of murder.

Query:
Was Joran Balar guilty of murder?

We know that Joran was a deranged personality from the three examples you cite. But he never killed anyone before he was joined that we know of. For some reason, this reminds me of the film In Cold Blood (based on a real murder case and book about it, I understand); which posits the theory that the two killers; individually, would not have murdered a family; but together they created a personality capable of preforming the deed. Did Joran need Dax to become a murderer, perhaps to give him more confidence?

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Funny, I read the thread title as "Symbiont quilt"! It would kinda make sense that the Trill sew quilts and give them to the next host, wouldn't it?

I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who read it that way!

 

[Anthony Sabre]

Did Joran need Dax to become a murderer, perhaps to give him more confidence?

Excellent point. I never considered that. In any event this appears to be one of those controversies that was too sticky for the writers to revisit. It was far more interesting, I suppose, to simply explore the murderous aspect of Joran.

In The Lives of Dax it was Gard that killed Joran. The fact that Gard has experience with this would suggest something similar happened in the past. Sure would be nice to have a background story on the Gard symbiont. Dax can't be the only show in town.

 

[Unicron]

I never felt the character of Joran was handled all that consistently. There's no doubt he was guilty of murder, but Equilibrium gave me the impression that his violence was probably out of a sense of desperation, and the unstable joining might have only increased this. That doesn't rule out the later portrayal of Joran as being habitually violent, but there's really nothing in Equilibrium to suggest that. IMO anyway.