Sybok's not-quite brainwashing trick

[sonak]

OK, so Sybok wasn't supposed to be a straight-up cardboard villain in TFF, which is to the film's credit. He was meant to be more misguided than malevolent, so overt brainwashing or hypnosis was out as a method for attracting followers, because that would be from the villain handbook.


Instead they went with a plot point compromise-he didn't brainwash, he "freed people from their secret pain." First off, I find it a silly conceit that everyone has a secret pain that overwhelms them with guilt, or causes them inner turmoil, etc.
Secondly, so what if Sybok "cures" them of that pain? Why would that mean Enterprise crewmembers would turn their backs on the Captain and suddenly follow Sybok? Therapists could cure someone of a secret pain, but they don't gain "followers."
And of course, McCoy late in the movie DOES have his secret pain taken away, and still doesn't follow Sybok.


So why do they portray Chekov, Sulu, and Uhura as effectively cult followers of Sybok? Are they more "weak-willed" than McCoy? Was it because McCoy had Kirk and Spock backing him up?

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

The inherit weakness of character bothers me a lot in this film. I've seen it more times than most others have, and I've found many ways of explaining some of the nonsense (ref. Keeper of the Katra). But it's hard to figure why Sulu and Uhura just lose it to Sybok unless he really is using his mental powers to control them.

 

[Christopher]

Well, remember the concept of the unreliable narrator. Just because Sybok said he was doing nothing more than freeing people from their private pain, that doesn't mean he was right or truthful. I'm sure that was all he wanted to believe he was doing, but there was probably some deeper level of telepathic manipulation going on.

I'm reminded of the psychological tricks that cult leaders use to win the allegiance of people who are lost, confused, seeking something to believe in, and thus vulnerable to having their wills and identities reshaped as the cult leader wishes. Maybe Sybok was able to artificially induce that state of confusion and suggestibility, so it felt to him like he was giving new purpose to people who'd lost their way. But basically it is brainwashing: preying on a person's vulnerabilities to tear down the psyche so you can rebuild it with the beliefs and allegiances you desire. It's not really about healing their pain, it's about using it against them to undermine their sense of self. The healing rhetoric is just propaganda. What really happens is that once you use their vulnerabilities to leave them exposed and suggestible, you then convince them that following you will bring them peace and salvation.

 

[RyuRoots]

Well, remember the concept of the unreliable narrator. Just because Sybok said he was doing nothing more than freeing people from their private pain, that doesn't mean he was right or truthful. I'm sure that was all he wanted to believe he was doing, but there was probably some deeper level of telepathic manipulation going on.

I'm reminded of the psychological tricks that cult leaders use to win the allegiance of people who are lost, confused, seeking something to believe in, and thus vulnerable to having their wills and identities reshaped as the cult leader wishes. Maybe Sybok was able to artificially induce that state of confusion and suggestibility, so it felt to him like he was giving new purpose to people who'd lost their way. But basically it is brainwashing: preying on a person's vulnerabilities to tear down the psyche so you can rebuild it with the beliefs and allegiances you desire. It's not really about healing their pain, it's about using it against them to undermine their sense of self. The healing rhetoric is just propaganda. What really happens is that once you use their vulnerabilities to leave them exposed and suggestible, you then convince them that following you will bring them peace and salvation.

Definitely agree with this whole post, but the bolded part in particular. It's important to remember that not everything everyone ever says in fiction is the whole and complete truth. People can outright lie or (I personally think more likely for Sybok) be deluded just like in real life.

 

[YARN]

Well, remember the concept of the unreliable narrator. Just because Sybok said he was doing nothing more than freeing people from their private pain, that doesn't mean he was right or truthful.

You only speak of unreliable narrators because you are afraid to trust Sybok. Your pain obviously runs deep. Share it with him.

 

[Unicron]

According to the novelization, Sybok used a Vulcan technique effectively similar to a mind meld to "free" his followers of their pain; Sulu was freed of guilt over the death of a friend during a Klingon attack when he was a boy, Scotty of regret over Peter's death in TWOK etc. Spock implies this is a major breach of Vulcan ethics regarding telepathy, since melds are usually done only with the consent of the other person, and it's also said that Sybok used similar attacks on Vulcan in an attempt to rescue his mother's Katra and take it with him to Sha Ka Ree. That is why he was banished, not merely for favoring emotions over pure logic.

 

[sonak]

OK, but that's just a more elaborate explanation for HOW he frees them from their pain-it doesn't explain why they'd then become his followers.

And to the "maybe he does brainwash them and lies to them about it" theory, that works, but is NOT supported by anything in the movie, it's just a fan explanation.(Because clearly McCoy DID have his "pain taken away," yet DIDN'T become a follower of Sybok, like Sulu and Uhura.

 

[Stevil2001]

Well, it's obvious. Sulu and Uhura and all are cool, but McCoy's just too fucking awesome to be controlled.

 

[Christopher]

And to the "maybe he does brainwash them and lies to them about it" theory, that works, but is NOT supported by anything in the movie, it's just a fan explanation.(Because clearly McCoy DID have his "pain taken away," yet DIDN'T become a follower of Sybok, like Sulu and Uhura.

Actually he was swayed by Sybok at first, but then Spock remained unaffected because Sybok miscalculated, and Kirk refused to submit to Sybok's "therapy" at all, so we don't know how or whether he would've been affected if he had. Their influence let McCoy shake off Sybok's influence. So there's no inconsistency with the explanation that Sybok was using some kind of mental manipulation.

And yes, it's an interpretation after the fact, but interpretation is what you're supposed to do with a text. Some interpretations are more of a reach than others, but there's nothing wrong with interpretation per se; it's an intrinsic part of how an audience engages with a text.

 

[sonak]

I wasn't saying it was a bad explanation, it's a clever and neat one actually, I'm just pointing out that it's basically pure speculation beyond what's shown, to make up for some fuzziness on a plot point

 

[Christopher]

^True, but that hardly makes it unique. If people didn't engage in speculation to try to explain vague plot points, this BBS and others like it would be a lot quieter. And there are few Trek movies that require as much speculative rationalization as this one.

 

[Unicron]

OK, but that's just a more elaborate explanation for HOW he frees them from their pain-it doesn't explain why they'd then become his followers.

Well, if someone gave you the ability to overcome an event or memory that troubles you on that deep of a level, if you felt you were given the strength to finally face it, then you'd probably feel afterward that you'd want to repay the (apparent) act of kindness. That's the novel's interpretation of Sybok's influence. Sulu blamed himself for apparently not saving a wounded friend in time during the Klingon attack, but Sybok's mind meld helped him see that he couldn't have made any real difference - his friend was already dead before he rushed to get help, and all the emotional blame he built up afterwards was ultimately pointless.

 

[sonak]

To me that still sounds like pledging your devotion to your therapist or something. I get that they'd be grateful, but that's why they have thank-you cards.

 

[Basill]

I agree that he is doing more than just "freeing" them of guilt as he claimed (and may have believed), but probably fudging around in their euphoria flooded minds in order to gain their devotion. Though, unlike the more vulnerable cult like types that often seem to be lost and searching for something (not unlike the fellow in the film's opening) the Enterprise crew were well rounded individuals with strong loyalties.

Still, I hear euphoria is a powerful inducing agent. Sybok's method is probably a mixture of extreme fear, just being forced to concentrate on a deep seeded experience one would rather forget, and the flood of euphoria after Sybok unbraids them from their sense of guilt and responsibility. Use that and a dulling of loyalties by planting the idea that it would be beneficial to bring the non-converted over to this train of thought (further relieving them of guilt for any perceived disloyalty) and you've got a Sybokian convert. Well, that and some well honed telepathy. Of course, I am no brainwash expert, though I hear the term is a misnomer of sorts.

The scruff of Nimbus III may also be more easily converted than the Enterprise crew, and for longer duration, but the effect and method were probably similar.

 

[Christopher]

Though, unlike the more vulnerable cult like types that often seem to be lost and searching for something (not unlike the fellow in the film's opening) the Enterprise crew were well rounded individuals with strong loyalties.

Which is why I suggested that maybe Sybok's ability was to artificially induce a mental state similar to that of the lost, adrift people who are preyed on by cults, people who have lost a sense of identity or purpose and thus will grab onto whatever belief is offered them.

 

[Basill]

Which is why I suggested that maybe Sybok's ability was to artificially induce a mental state similar to that of the lost, adrift people who are preyed on by cults, people who have lost a sense of identity or purpose and thus will grab onto whatever belief is offered them.

True, and a good point it was. It wasn't my intention to gloss over it, but I guess I was simply trying to consider the very different types of people that Sybok managed to win over and how those differences might have been so easily trumped and what the method(s) might have entailed, i.e., say the Nimbus III people easily succumbed, but Sybok had to turn up the Vulcan blender to force the Starfleet souls into a willing state of submission. Once again, I don't know enough about real brain washing much less the mind games our pointy eared favorites engage in, but it is a fascinating imagination experiment.

I can see the people on the planet being easily converted and then just sticking with the routine after they were a part of the movement, but it might have been interesting to see down the road how long such an effect would have lasted on the Enterprise crew. Would Sybok have had to "re-wash" his converts to keep them in a confused mental state as they began to recall more of their sense of self? Were they even in a confused mental state? How useful is that for people that need to pilot starships through powerful energy barriers separating huge segments of the galaxy?

And another thought occurs to me. That initial state of euphoria might have worn off soon enough, but I have to wonder if Sybok's methods might have had some long term benefits for his followers. Possible?