Sybok, Burnham, and Spock (Don't worry, not another canon thread)

[Kevin Wolff]

Personally, I think making any connection to the previous crew at this point in Trek mythology is a mistake. It's almost the same mistake they made tying the Kelvin-verse with Prime using Spock. Let Spock go. He will live forever. Show us a 23rd we barely know. Pike's Ent, etc.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Personally I'd love to see Sybok in DSC. I think it could be a fun way to show a little of that character's backstory and development. Tying TFF into DSC would be out of left field, in a good way.

Also if we get to see a live-action I-Chaya my head will explode.

 

[yenny]

As the title says, I'm not posting about what is or isn't canon. Or even about small universe syndrome (a pet peeve of mine I'm ignoring here because my personal pet peeves mean less than nothing to the production team).

Just trying to put the pieces together.

Spock was about 35 in TOS I believe.

Sonequa Martin-Green is 32 now.

Sybok is 7 - 14 years older than Spock, since Spock new him as a young, brilliant student and we all know Vulcan breeding timelines.

Discovery is set about 10 years prior to TOS.

Burnham was adopted as a child by Sarek and Amanda, so had to be adopted after Sybok was born.

So when Spock was born Burnham was 10 and Sybok was 14 (give or take).

Which means that Burnham and Sybok spent their formative years together and Burnham likely left for Starfleet while Spock was still a young child, maybe a pre teen if she went to Uni/Vulcan Science Academy before Starfleet, which is a distinct possibility.

So Sybok had a human step mother and a human step sister. That actually helps recon his decision to reject logic for emotions since he was intimately exposed to them in ways few other Vulcan's would be.

It also means Sybok would have been a major part of Burnhams life and his defection from the ways of logic to emotionality would be relatively recent. The family would still be healing from this. Perhaps part of why Burnham and Spock embraced the Vulcan ways so much, sacrificing their Human heritage as much as they could?

If Sybok isn't just ignored and and retconned out of existence like a Winslow family member (did I do that?) and with the seeming importance and ongoing relationship issues of the Sarek/Burnham to the series, then it seems very likely Sybok will have some presence on the show, whether it is in flashbacks, current times meeting with Sarek/Burnham, or brought up in Martin-Green/Frains for your Emmy consideration reel family argument scene.

Any thoughts? Am I missing something else blatantly obvious?

They haven't establish Commander Burnham age as of yet. Me, I think she was born 2217. At the age of 5, the Starship she on, crashes. She is found by Sarek and his first wife a Vulcan Princess, Base on that no relatives couldn't be found, Sarek wife suggested that they should adopt her, which he agree. In 2224 Sybok is born. In 2228, Sybok mom dies. In 2229 Sarek marries Amanda Greyson, In 2230 Spock is born. In 2235, she inter the Vulcan Science Academy. In 2239 soon after her graduation from the Vulcan Science Academy, she immediate join Starfleet. Base on that she went to the Vulcan Science Academy, she only had to serve in Starfleet Academy for 2 years, The first year for basic and starship operation training and the second year for command training. After her graduation from Starfleet Academy and her high grade score at the Vulcan Science Academy, she is ask in helping with the constuction of the phase 2 Constitution Class starships, which she accept.

 

[Kor]

In my head canon, there never was a Sybok. It was all just a bad dream induced by that entity at the center of the universe along with some unknown additive in that last batch of contraband Romulan ale. So there's no need to work him into the backstory of STD.

Kor

 

[KirkusOveractus]

I don't quite get the age calculation between Spock and Burnham in the OP. By the time of DSC, Spock is Science Officer on Enterprise under Pike. How could he be a young child when Burnham leaves for Starfleet?

 

[Jesse1066]

I don't quite get the age calculation between Spock and Burnham in the OP. By the time of DSC, Spock is Science Officer on Enterprise under Pike. How could he be a young child when Burnham leaves for Starfleet?

Spock was born in 2230, making him 25 in 2255. Sonequa Martin-Green is 32 and Burnham has apparently been first officer for seven years. Spock was likely a teenager at most when Burnham left for the academy.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Spock was born in 2230, making him 25 in 2255. Sonequa Martin-Green is 32 and Burnham has apparently been first officer for seven years. Spock was likely a teenager at most when Burnham left for the academy.

Her real age is 32, but may not be playing a 32 year old character. On the other hand, what happens in the series prevents her from becoming Captain, thus making Kirk the youngest to command a starship 10 years later.

Just trying to work out the ages and you helped. Thank you!

 

[yenny]

I don't quite get the age calculation between Spock and Burnham in the OP. By the time of DSC, Spock is Science Officer on Enterprise under Pike. How could he be a young child when Burnham leaves for Starfleet?

At that time, Spock had the rank of Lieutenant. He would been 24 or 24, depending if the events take place before or after his birthday. would have rose in rank with help from a older experience sibling that was in Starfleet and would have been the cause of him joining Starfleet.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

She is found by Sarek and his first wife a Vulcan Princess, Base on that no relatives couldn't be found, Sarek wife suggested that they should adopt her, which he agree.

AFAIK, Sarek was never married to Sybok's mother. Amanda was Sarek's first wife.

 

[Timo]

Random canonazism:

- Kirk being the youngest-ever Captain remains just fan speculation. Yes, even in Abramsverse, where his promotion was such a smooth affair that "their" Starfleet probably is knee-deep in teenage Admirals.

- Yes, Sybok's mum is just called Sybok's mum in the movie, not Sarek's wife.

- Also, the princess (in the novelization, priestess, and that's not necessarily a contradiction) is unlikely to have been married to Sarek, as there's dialogue in the TNG episode "Sarek" stating that Sarek's first wife, like Perrin, was human.

- And although this doesn't necessarily mean Sarek's first wife was Amanda, it's suggestive enough, or else it would be stated that Sarek's first, third and ninth wives all were human, or whatever...

- Nimoy of course was about 33 when "The Cage" was filmed. If the "conversion factor" in ages is the same for Burnham, then she's 23 years old (hey, Gary Mitchell had made Lieutenant Commander at that age, according to his PSI card!) in the show. Although we're already deep into speculating that the pilot spans multiple years, ruining the whole concept of actor vs. character age.

Timo Saloniemi

-

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

In my head canon, there never was a Sybok. It was all just a bad dream induced by that entity at the center of the universe along with some unknown additive in that last batch of contraband Romulan ale. So there's no need to work him into the backstory of STD.

Kor

Or, like with Berengaria VII and the 200 meter, fire breathing flying reptiles, the Vulcans put too much of the local "herbs" in their plomeek soup.

 

[Garth Rockett]

Sybok is 7 - 14 years older than Spock, since Spock new him as a young, brilliant student and we all know Vulcan breeding timelines.

Do we really? I mean, we know that Vulcan males undergo pon farr every seven years of their adult life, but has it been definitively established that they breed only while undergoing pon farr?

 

[Timo]

Not really. Heck, it hasn't been established they breed while undergoing pon farr, either - in three examples out of four, this is explicitly what does not happen, after all. (Nor does anybody die, contrary to myth.)

We also have reason to suspect Spock and Saavik had plenty of sex at a random time in Saavik's cycle (yes, females do get pon farr too, ENT says so, although whether they have it cyclic is still debatable, and neither T'Pring nor Saavik looked particularly hot or bothered by it). So the very act doesn't require synchronizing the cycles with telepathic bonding or careful choosing or anything. Although we don't know if Saavik really is pregnant in ST4, and thus can't tell whether synching has relevance or not.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Do we really? I mean, we know that Vulcan males undergo pon farr every seven years of their adult life, but has it been definitively established that they breed only while undergoing pon farr?

No.

Vulcans can mate any time they want. It's only every 7 years that they MUST do it.

 

[Timo]

Or, taking Spock literally, every 7 years they must try and find a mate for themselves. What they then do with that mate is left open, as is the proper procedure if the male already has a mate. Tuvok went to pon farr despite having a mate supposedly because she was beyond telepathic contact; Vorik, ditto. Sarek need not have undergone pon farr while his wives were alive and proximal.

Two instances would suggest pon farr includes a willingness to copulate, in addition to the demonstrated willingness to bash male heads until the competing suitors stop moving. Spock may or may not have been under an urge to copulate in ST3, but then again, he was very young there. And T'Pol seemed to be under an urge to copulate when inadvertently triggered by a disease in "Bounty", or then it was just the female way of "finding a mate" or perhaps something going wrong due to the disease.

(In contrast, not even the most modern Trek incarnations have demonstrated Vulcans actually having sex outside their odd animalistic period. Then again, where'd showing that leave Kirk, whose more explicit exploits are something of a plot point?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[KirkusOveractus]

No.

Vulcans can mate any time they want. It's only every 7 years that they MUST do it.

Remember, it was only a year after his Pon Farr that he was knockin' knuckles with a Romulan Commander!

 

[DarKush]

http://trekmovie.com/2017/07/31/edi...tar-trek-discovery-is-not-that-big-of-a-deal/

Don't know if anyone posted that yet, but I thought the article made some good points.

 

[yenny]

Spock was born in 2230, making him 25 in 2255. Sonequa Martin-Green is 32 and Burnham has apparently been first officer for seven years. Spock was likely a teenager at most when Burnham left for the academy.

The actress is 32. We do not know if the charactor Burnham that she play is 32. We will find out if Sybok is seen when she is found. Anyway she was attending the Vulcan Science Academy when Spock was 5 and would have been 9 when she enter Starfleet Academy.

 

[F. King Daniel]

No.

Vulcans can mate any time they want. It's only every 7 years that they MUST do it.

That's what DC Fontana writes in "Vulcan's Glory". But in ENT: "Fusion" they're quite clear about Vulcans having sex only once every seven years

 

[Timo]

Well, they say Vulcan males are "driven to mate" every seven years. Three basic options there:

1) Mating means what Spock meant with it originally, i.e. finding a mate, securing a partner. Kov most probably means the very same thing, as he speaks of mating rituals, which in Earth life refer to mate-finding and mate-securing activity, not copulation. Thus copulation would be a separate issue.

2) Mating in the sense of copulation can take place at arbitrary times, but every seven years it's mandatory for males.

3) Mating in the sense of copulation just plain won't happen except every seven years per a given male. Females make their own arrangements.

Since Trek generally is sparse with direct descriptions of copulation, the jury (and the audience) still patiently waits outside.

Of course, if copulation really takes place very seldom, Vulcans might prefer to get fertilized by means unrelated to copulation, and unaffected by the inconvenient schedules.

Timo Saloniemi