Rii
Rear Admiral
Is this a serious question? Private pool ownership is so strongly correlated with abundant wealth that the Greek finance ministry is using Google Earth to crack down on tax evasion.
Swimming: an elitist pastime?
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Is this a serious question? Private pool ownership is so strongly correlated with abundant wealth that the Greek finance ministry is using Google Earth to crack down on tax evasion.
Hmm...don´t know...my family had a pool in the garden as well...
also I had tennis lessons as a kid (was not expensive) and did horseback riding...and my father owns a sail-motor-boat. Is my family elitist? No, not at all. Working class family, not even "upper-working-class". Not rich at all, though also not bitten by poverty. However its a matter of focus...if you want something, you may have to go without something else therefore and you may not have the fanciest of them all. Like when I did horseback riding most of the time I just helped with caring for the horses of other people and in exchange was allowed to ride the horse. My father saved money for a long time, then bought an old boat together with a mate, who had the same dream and they tinkered around a lot on the boat to make it nice again. Also the habour were they have it is not elitist at all, its all "normal" people. However the elitists have their own habours...there the boats do looks quite different too...big white cruiser yachts. Still its not only an elitist hobby.
As for school and swimming pools. Most schools here also do not have an own pool..I don´t know a single one who has at least.... as kids we were put into busses and on our bikes and met in front of some puplic schwimming hall with our teacher, who gave the lessons. In nursery we always walked together to a home for the elderly, that had a swimming pool for therapy reasons and used that one.
TerokNor
also I had tennis lessons as a kid (was not expensive) and did horseback riding...and my father owns a sail-motor-boat. Is my family elitist? No, not at all. Working class family, not even "upper-working-class". Not rich at all, though also not bitten by poverty. However its a matter of focus...if you want something, you may have to go without something else therefore and you may not have the fanciest of them all. Like when I did horseback riding most of the time I just helped with caring for the horses of other people and in exchange was allowed to ride the horse. My father saved money for a long time, then bought an old boat together with a mate, who had the same dream and they tinkered around a lot on the boat to make it nice again. Also the habour were they have it is not elitist at all, its all "normal" people. However the elitists have their own habours...there the boats do looks quite different too...big white cruiser yachts. Still its not only an elitist hobby.
As for school and swimming pools. Most schools here also do not have an own pool..I don´t know a single one who has at least.... as kids we were put into busses and on our bikes and met in front of some puplic schwimming hall with our teacher, who gave the lessons. In nursery we always walked together to a home for the elderly, that had a swimming pool for therapy reasons and used that one.
TerokNor
Indeed. Rest assured that I was properly monocled, old bean.
A lot of the responses about private pool ownership is pretty surprising to me.... Someone mentioned how you must have a good amount of extra money to support the cost of construction and maintenance of a pool... What about places that have a pool already when you move in? My dad just moved into a house he is RENTING which has it's own pool. He works two jobs, one of which is as a housekeeper at a college, and he has 7 kids, 4 of which still live at home. I wouldn't call it elitist to have a pool. It certainly doesn't happen for low income families, but it's not like you have to be "abundantly wealthy" to have one.
As for the idea of swimming itself as elitist, why wouldn't low income families be able to learn to swim? Most of the projects in my city are right next to public pools, or at least only a few blocks away. Plus, the local YMCA has a pool, and they have free after school programs for low income families whose parents work and need somewhere for there kids to go after school which includes access to the pool and instructors. I can understand an adult who can't swim not pushing there child to learn, but it's not like it's not available if the parent tried to encourage it.
I also feel the need to mention that almost all the low income families in the area around my moms house all have PS3s and PSPs and Wiis and all that good stuff. Perhaps it's just a matter of priority, or as TerkNor put it:
As for the idea of swimming itself as elitist, why wouldn't low income families be able to learn to swim? Most of the projects in my city are right next to public pools, or at least only a few blocks away. Plus, the local YMCA has a pool, and they have free after school programs for low income families whose parents work and need somewhere for there kids to go after school which includes access to the pool and instructors. I can understand an adult who can't swim not pushing there child to learn, but it's not like it's not available if the parent tried to encourage it.
I also feel the need to mention that almost all the low income families in the area around my moms house all have PS3s and PSPs and Wiis and all that good stuff. Perhaps it's just a matter of priority, or as TerkNor put it:
That's what I always used to think -- that treading water or dog-paddling was instinctive, something everyone was born knowing how to do. But apparently that's not the case. With some people, if you throw them into water deeper than they are tall, they just thrash about until they drown. Weird.
Rii
Rear Admiral
I admit I have a hard time grasping it myself. I mean, if I thrash about in the water seems to me that doing so is going to keep me on the surface. That's what treading water is. Slapping at the water and frantically kicking with one's feet isn't going to be very efficient and I can see one rapidly succumbing to exhaustion, but just going straight down? As you say: weird.
What about floating on your back? Not that that's your first instinct, but can't you pretty much do that indefinitely?
I admit I have a hard time grasping it myself. I mean, if I thrash about in the water seems to me that doing so is going to keep me on the surface. That's what treading water is. Slapping at the water and frantically kicking with one's feet isn't going to be very efficient and I can see one rapidly succumbing to exhaustion, but just going straight down? As you say: weird.
What about floating on your back? Not that that's your first instinct, but can't you pretty much do that indefinitely?
I admit I have a hard time grasping it myself. I mean, if I thrash about in the water seems to me that doing so is going to keep me on the surface. That's what treading water is. Slapping at the water and frantically kicking with one's feet isn't going to be very efficient and I can see one rapidly succumbing to exhaustion, but just going straight down? As you say: weird.
Not if you're not buoyant enough. I can't float on my back for more than a few seconds before I start to sink.
That's weird. I've never heard of it, but it sounds really silly.
It's definitively a regional think. Here in Italy, golf is crazy expensive, and people will look at you funny even if you mention it. On the other hand, when I visited Scotland you couldn't go ten miles without seeing a golf course, and every other guy was an avid golfer.
It's definitively a multi-variate analysis. Hard to reach conclusions without controlled experiments.
Again, depends. Professional bicycling, sure. But here you can buy a carbon-fibre bike with €100, and spend all your afternoons pedalling around until you drop dead.
Heh, again it's very regional. Having a private pool here is the epitome of being wealthy. Of course, most people here lives in apartment buildings, and space is at a premium. I have a couple of very affluent friends (to the point of not needing to work), but even their mansion does not have a pool. On the other hand, if you live in the middle of nowhere then having a pool is just a matter of digging a hole and pave it with concrete.
Eh, as a avid biker, using a 100€ bike means fixing your tires every other week since 100€ does not cover kevlar inlays, spending every other month fixing your gears or chain and dont try braking when driving downhill at decent speed
Spending a bit more initially is certainly worth it in the long run.
(Sorry, one of my pet issues
)
I don't know how to swim. I once was "taught" by using the sink or swim method, when I was age 7. I completely freaked out and was panicing. Absolute fear. When people jumped in to save me, first they had to restrain me as I was flailing around so wildly. Gave one guy a black eye and bruised up another couple of adults.
Ten minutes later once I was calmed down and everyone had recovered from this little teaching episode, they agreed that if I didn't want to swim (which I didn't) they weren't going to force me.
Ten minutes later once I was calmed down and everyone had recovered from this little teaching episode, they agreed that if I didn't want to swim (which I didn't) they weren't going to force me.
I admit I have a hard time grasping it myself. I mean, if I thrash about in the water seems to me that doing so is going to keep me on the surface. That's what treading water is. Slapping at the water and frantically kicking with one's feet isn't going to be very efficient and I can see one rapidly succumbing to exhaustion, but just going straight down? As you say: weird.
I can totally "grasp" it. I vividly remember almost drowning when I was ~6 years old or so and accidentally jumped into the deep section of a pool (well, I probably wasn't close to drowning at all considering there were dozens of people around, the water was at most 1,5 meters deep, and I was not far away from the edge of the pool, but still
) - once panic sets in you just lose all control, especially if you have no experience with deep water at all.Btw. is it true or a myth that humans are the only mammal that can't naturally swim?
Meh. I don't think you can get a new(ish) carbon fibre frame for 100€ anywhere, even Italy, especially since the vast majority of "Italian" bicycles these days are actually manufactured in Taiwan.
And the frame doesn't matter as much as the components anyway.
I bow to your wisdom, as my knowledge of biking amounts to how avoid bikers when I walk on the sideways or drive my car.Eh, as a avid biker, using a 100€ bike means fixing your tires every other week since 100€ does not cover kevlar inlays, spending every other month fixing your gears or chain and dont try braking when driving downhill at decent speed
Spending a bit more initially is certainly worth it in the long run.
(Sorry, one of my pet issues
But, even if you need to invest more at the start, I would hardly call it an elitist past-time. In fact, here the narrative around the sport is mostly the glorification of hard-work of the bikers, which are seen as common-folk heroes, as in the heated but respectful rivalry between Fausto Coppi and Gino Bartali in the 50s.
That's pretty much what happened to my wife when she was a kid. I've since taught her, though she still tends to look panicked and call for help while swimming along perfectly well.
It's a incredibly stupid way to try to introduce people to the skill, and has surely cost a lot more lives than it has saved, by putting people off from learning properly.
Is this a serious question? Private pool ownership is so strongly correlated with abundant wealth that the Greek finance ministry is using Google Earth to crack down on tax evasion.
Yes, because Greece has a pool tax... They only check whether you're evading the pool tax by using Google Earth.
Rii
Rear Admiral
Is this a serious question? Private pool ownership is so strongly correlated with abundant wealth that the Greek finance ministry is using Google Earth to crack down on tax evasion.
Yes, because Greece has a pool tax... They only check whether you're evading the pool tax by using Google Earth.
In theory. In practice, folks who lie about pool ownership are likely to be lying about other things too; and if the ministry has cause to investigate a given individual/household for violation of a particular clause, you really think they're not going to run over the entire filing with a fine-toothed comb whilst they're at it?
I had swimming lessons and suchlike as a kid, so I can paddle around in a vaguely directional manner until I get tired. Did all that life-saving shit diving down to collect bricks while fully-dressed, etc, etc, etc too.
Never really enjoyed it though. I tend not to go venture into water deeper than I am tall for very long, esp. in the sea rather than a pool. But yeah, I can swim when I need to.
I can't see it really matters though, or whether it's a concern who can and can't. I noticed a couple of posts talking about it being a key life skill, or life-saving. It really isn't, for the vast, vast majority of people. Think how many drowning incidents there are in an average year. Now deduct the number where swimming ability was irrelevant (eg water too shallow, too heavily intoxicated, toddlers/too young to swim anyway, physically not able to swim because of other injuries or being trapped, lethally cold or otherwise dangerous environmental conditions, etc, etc). Those are the vast majority of drowning cases (look it up if you don't believe me). What we're talking about here in this thread are a small number of relatively high-profile cases which are often high-profile solely because they involve children.
The number of deaths where actual swimming ability would matter is so small that to call it a key life-saving skill is really over-egging the pudding. I mean, based on the odds, an advanced driving awareness course would be MUCH more likely to save your life. And even with regards to drowning, adequate prevention of risk would be much, much more effective than swimming ability in terms of preventing death.
So fretting about whether it's elitist or not... yeah, I can't be bothered too much about this.
Never really enjoyed it though. I tend not to go venture into water deeper than I am tall for very long, esp. in the sea rather than a pool. But yeah, I can swim when I need to.
I can't see it really matters though, or whether it's a concern who can and can't. I noticed a couple of posts talking about it being a key life skill, or life-saving. It really isn't, for the vast, vast majority of people. Think how many drowning incidents there are in an average year. Now deduct the number where swimming ability was irrelevant (eg water too shallow, too heavily intoxicated, toddlers/too young to swim anyway, physically not able to swim because of other injuries or being trapped, lethally cold or otherwise dangerous environmental conditions, etc, etc). Those are the vast majority of drowning cases (look it up if you don't believe me). What we're talking about here in this thread are a small number of relatively high-profile cases which are often high-profile solely because they involve children.
The number of deaths where actual swimming ability would matter is so small that to call it a key life-saving skill is really over-egging the pudding. I mean, based on the odds, an advanced driving awareness course would be MUCH more likely to save your life. And even with regards to drowning, adequate prevention of risk would be much, much more effective than swimming ability in terms of preventing death.
So fretting about whether it's elitist or not... yeah, I can't be bothered too much about this.
