Surely Jeph Loeb sucks?

[Broccoli]

Smallville: Season one was a decent tweeny show about Clark's early days. Then, Season Two begins with Jeph Loeb's name added to the credits. The show turns into a silly, comic book soap opera trying to disguise itself as a teen drama. The show simply goes downhill, creatively, from there.

So, you are saying the first season of Smallville was the best? Wow...that's just...wow...

I think you'll find most will disagree with that sentiment and actually seem to like how Smallville began to build it's superhero mythology in season two and onwards.

 

[The]

Smallville: Season one was a decent tweeny show about Clark's early days. Then, Season Two begins with Jeph Loeb's name added to the credits. The show turns into a silly, comic book soap opera trying to disguise itself as a teen drama. The show simply goes downhill, creatively, from there.

So, you are saying the first season of Smallville was the best? Wow...that's just...wow...

I think you'll find most will disagree with that sentiment and actually seem to like how Smallville began to build it's superhero mythology in season two and onwards.

People who don't get asthmatic over guys in spandex enjoyed the first season. The first season was about real people that just happened to be connected to superhuman stuff. Then it became a 'sooper-heero' show pretending it was anything else...

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I enjoy Morrison. I thought Final Crisis was good up until the fucked up ending but I enjoyed RIP and the arcs before it.

One of the biggest problems I had with Final Crisis is well -- EVERYTHING. The writing, the tie ins, the multiple, multiple spin offs. At least with Marvel they tried to keep it a little bit more simple...not that much better. But Final Crisis had about fifteen spinoffs.

 

[sidious618]

I enjoy Morrison. I thought Final Crisis was good up until the fucked up ending but I enjoyed RIP and the arcs before it.

One of the biggest problems I had with Final Crisis is well -- EVERYTHING. The writing, the tie ins, the multiple, multiple spin offs. At least with Marvel they tried to keep it a little bit more simple...not that much better. But Final Crisis had about fifteen spinoffs.

But you didn't have to read any of the spinoffs to understand the Final Crisis.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I enjoy Morrison. I thought Final Crisis was good up until the fucked up ending but I enjoyed RIP and the arcs before it.

One of the biggest problems I had with Final Crisis is well -- EVERYTHING. The writing, the tie ins, the multiple, multiple spin offs. At least with Marvel they tried to keep it a little bit more simple...not that much better. But Final Crisis had about fifteen spinoffs.

But you didn't have to read any of the spinoffs to understand the Final Crisis.

Yes you did...A lot.

 

[Myasishchev]

Should I be ready for utter crap?

Well, uh ... yeah.

Oh.

You know who else sucks...Grant Morrison...GAH!

Lately, anyway. JLA, Invisibles and the Filth are still standards, however. Long Hallowe'en by contrast actually looks weaker in retrospect, where those works, imo, seem stronger compared to Morrison-done-badly that Morrison's been lately.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

But you didn't have to read any of the spinoffs to understand the Final Crisis.

No, you also needed to read Final Crisis: Resist and Final Crisis: Superman Beyond. The others were disposable.

Hell, I'm not even sure what Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds has to do with Final Crisis at all. (It would also help if the "lead" Legion in Three Worlds was one that we'd seen prior to this story that we had an emotional investment in. I just don't really care about Geoff Johns' new Legion. Now, if it had had the Five Years Later Legion, then I'd have been over the moon.)

 

[sidious618]

But you didn't have to read any of the spinoffs to understand the Final Crisis.

No, you also needed to read Final Crisis: Resist and Final Crisis: Superman Beyond. The others were disposable.

You didn't need to read Resist (I didn't read it until after the relevant FC issue- I got confused as to what order to read them in and didn't notice until later on) although I'll give you that SB clears up a few things.

 

[MrPointy]

The guy helped write Commando. He is a god in my book.

 

[Mr Light]

I didn't read "Superman Beyond" and thus I had no clue who this space vampire that is suddenly the unstoppable villain in the final issue was, which was just the final straw of pissing me off with Final Crisis.

 

[TheArsenal]

I read them all. Wish I hadn't.

Superman Beyond helps makes sense of the climax, so that's a must read. Revelation clears a few things up around the edges, but is not essential, but helpful. Rogues Revenge is the most entertaining of the tie-ins, but the nowhere near important. And, so far, the Legion tie in appears to be a tie-in in name only. The two books Submit and Resist give a snap shot glimpse of the scale of larger crisis which you never seem to get in the in the main books.

Over all, though, the tie-ins are messily tied together and don't feel well thought out at all.

 

[Pindar]

I am sorry but this thread is woefully under-performing for a MadBaggins thread.

 

[coolghoul]

^ - What does that mean to those of us who don't know who MadBaggins is?

Btw, that is a cool moniker.

Edit - To keep it relevant, I liked Hush. And not only because of the Jim Lee artwork but it was gorgeous.

 

[Mr Light]

I agree with criticisms of Loeb but I generally enjoy his stuff. I just finished reading the second Red Hulk trade and it's dumb fun with a ton of hero guest-spots. I also just read Ultimates III and enjoyed that even with his usual "open with a super-hero murder mystery" tripe.