Supernovae

[AmbassadorPointyEars]

From a scientific standpoint, could a supernova really affect systems light-years away? Could it do so faster than light?

(I imagine that in the ST universe one could postulate some kind of subspace reaction or the like could travel and affect other systems...)

 

[Kaziarl]

Thats something I would like to know more about too. I don't think a normal supernova could have that kind of destructive force, but spock did say it wasn't normal. It was also revealed in countdown that there was a lot of decalithium (and please, correct me on that one if i'm wrong.) which they use to make Red Matter. Perhaps the supernova interacted with the decalithium in it's natural state, and instead of creating red matter made something else that amplified the blast, carrying it far past what one would think. We'll call it a hypernova for lack of a better term.

As for continuing togrow past that... Maybe once the hypernova shockwave reached other systems it triggered those suns to go nova, feeding the fire so to speak.

 

[photon70]

A supernovae effects star systems many light years away.

In fact, a supernovae, depending on how far away it is, is capable to 'sterilising' planets in neighbouring star systems due to the immense radiation output.

In terms of being faster than light, no, not in terms of the radiation flooding out of the supernovae. But hey, who know what will be discovered in the future!

Cheers

photon70

 

[Peter the Younger]

Yeah, I mean it varies somewhat according to the size of the star, but if a supergiant goes, it could pose a threat to star systems hundreds of light years away.

This was mentioned in an early (and otherwise forgettable) TNG episode, "The Last Outpost", as the cause of the Tkon Empire's destruction.

As for this one, either it was a "subspace variable supergiant" (yeah, I just made that up) or, it was really close to Romulus.

 

[Kaziarl]

Can a supernova, if close enough to another system, trigger the second star to go too?

 

[nx1701g]

Can a supernova, if close enough to another system, trigger the second star to go too?

I don't know for sure. I do know of Gamma Ray Bursts, but I think that Romulus was engulfed. Maybe Lursa and B'Etor weren't as dead as we thought...

 

[Daneel]

This puzzled me a bit too. Actually, I brought up the issue in a review of Countdown in the Trek Lit forum. This is what I wrote:

Also, how does the Hobus Star cause so much destruction so quickly? It's probably at least a couple of light-years away from the Romulan system, so how does the shockwave from its supernova manage to reach Romulus in a matter of days (weeks at most)? Even if Romulus is right next-door to the Hobus system, it's also stated that the supernova threatens Earth and Vulcan as well. Does its shockwave travel faster than light somehow, i.e. through some form of subspace?

I'm still not sure as to the answer. I guess we have to assume that the Hobus Star is an anomaly in the galaxy -- and forget that Trek canon has stated that no natural phenomena can move faster than light (yeah, why not? Enterprise broke that rule more than once, after all ).

 

[captcalhoun]

so far as i understand it; that was a complete crock of shit. there's no way a supernova could pose a threat to 'the entirie galaxy'. and the way Romulus was destroyed seemed more like it was the Romulan sun going up.

the whole thing was nearly as bad as Threshold or Genesis for utter wank science BS.

 

[Kaziarl]

I dunno. We know the decalithium stuff makes red matter. We know from countdown that there was a lot of it in the system. Red matter makes black holes, so maybe under different circumstances decalithium makes something else... I dunno, white holes?

I do remember reading something, somewhere, a long time ago saying that white holes spew matter, instead of absorbing it. Maybe that fueled the nova causing it to act the way it did. We will likely never know for sure, and all this is speculation. But it seems plausible doesn't it?

 

[chrisspringob]

The idea that a supernova's shockwave could travel faster than the speed of light is ridiculous, but so is much of Trek science. It's fun to nitpick stuff like this, but there's no point in getting too worked up over it. It's no worse than the science in most of the rest of Trek.

Similar nitpicks from past Trek movies:

TUC: How could the Excelsior have possibly been close enough to Praxis that it was hit by the shockwave of its destruction so shortly after it was destroyed?

Generations: How is it that when Soran's missle is launched toward the Veridian star, Picard watches the star go supernova instantaneously? Shouldn't the planet he's on be several light-minutes away from the star? It would take a few minutes for him to see it.

And that's just from two of the five previous movies. I'm sure there are countless similar examples from the TV shows.

 

[Thrawn]

Just in general, the shows never really gave a good accounting of the distances in space and difficulties presented by those distances, not to mention remarkably few instances of three-dimensional thinking. And at least in terms of the latter, this movie was a lot better at that. The ships didn't seem to all maneuver on one plane.

 

[Neopeius]

so far as i understand it; that was a complete crock of shit. there's no way a supernova could pose a threat to 'the entirie galaxy'. and the way Romulus was destroyed seemed more like it was the Romulan sun going up.

the whole thing was nearly as bad as Threshold or Genesis for utter wank science BS.

Quoted for Truth.

 

[Thomas Riker]

The supernova of the Hobus Star was a new phenomenon unlike anything starfleet, the romulans or klingons had ever seen before. It was more destructive and they didn't know why. That is why Spock went to great lengths to stop it via Red Matter. This is explained in "Countdown" - it just never really elaborates on what exactly made the Hobus Event more destructive than normal. But I would like to think that the Hobus Star is at least in the same region as Romulus.

 

[Neopeius]

The idea that a supernova's shockwave could travel faster than the speed of light is ridiculous, but so is much of Trek science. It's fun to nitpick stuff like this, but there's no point in getting too worked up over it. It's no worse than the science in most of the rest of Trek.

Similar nitpicks from past Trek movies:

TUC: How could the Excelsior have possibly been close enough to Praxis that it was hit by the shockwave of its destruction so shortly after it was destroyed?

Generations: How is it that when Soran's missle is launched toward the Veridian star, Picard watches the star go supernova instantaneously? Shouldn't the planet he's on be several light-minutes away from the star? It would take a few minutes for him to see it.

And that's just from two of the five previous movies. I'm sure there are countless similar examples from the TV shows.

Just because it was retarded then doesn't make it acceptable now.

 

[RoJoHen]

Just in general, the shows never really gave a good accounting of the distances in space and difficulties presented by those distances.

Yeah, did you notice how they could pretty much transport to anywhere from anywhere as long as Scotty was there? I mean, they beamed onto the Enterprise from Delta Vega...but hadn't Enterprise already warped away?!

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

The idea of a supernova affecting other star systems in a matter of days and weeks is ludicrous. "Decalithium" and "red matter" are technobabble without any real scientific meaning. The blast from the supenova travelled faster than light because the writers said so because the plot required it.

Bad science was really one of the weak points of the movie. Same goes for Delta Vega, which has to be Vulcan's moon if the destruction of Vulcan is supposed to be that visible there.

Not that there wasn't bad science in Star Trek before... but why has this to be an aspect which remains unchanged when the franchise gets a reboot?

 

[Thrawn]

The idea of a supernova affecting other star systems in a matter of days and weeks is ludicrous. "Decalithium" and "red matter" are technobabble without any real scientific meaning. The blast from the supenova travelled faster than light because the writers said so because the plot required it.

Bad science was really one of the weak points of the movie. Same goes for Delta Vega, which has to be Vulcan's moon if the destruction of Vulcan is supposed to be that visible there.

Not that there wasn't bad science in Star Trek before... but why has this to be an aspect which remains unchanged when the franchise gets a reboot?

Because it's space opera and no one really gives a shit.

Pretty much the instant you allow transporters, all attempt to make Trek science consistent with real science is instantly useless, and all you can do is make the universe internally consistent like any other made up universe. And with 40 years of Trek, even internal consistency is hard to come by these days, so really the best option is just to gloss over it as quickly as possible and focus the story on the important parts, which is pretty much what they did.

 

[Roshi]

^Well except overzealous Trekkies who-know-the-truth!